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Airports to ban cigarette lighters beyond checkpoints
Duluth News Tribune ^
| 12/31/04
| BRYON OKADA/Knight Ridder
Posted on 12/31/2004 10:16:18 PM PST by wagglebee
FORT WORTH, Texas - (KRT) - In what could become a major hassle for air travelers who smoke, the Homeland Security Department will ban all cigarette lighters beyond airport checkpoints beginning Feb. 15.
The Intelligence Reform Bill that President Bush signed Dec. 17 orders the Transportation Security Administration to review its banned-items list and to prohibit passengers from carrying butane lighters aboard planes. Legislation stipulates that the ban must be in place in 60 days.
"We are reviewing the necessary changes that the Transportation Security Administration will need to make based on the new intelligence legislation," TSA spokeswoman Andrea McCauley said.
The TSA may also expand the banned-items list to include matches, aviation industry sources have said. No decision has been made, according to one TSA official who spoke on condition of anonymity.
But if a ban is enacted, it isn't clear how screeners would detect matches, short of a time-consuming physical search.
In 2003, former TSA head James Loy determined that two lighters and four books of matches were "an acceptable level of risk" to balance security and customer service. But over the next year, Loy's decision was criticized as too lax.
After all, two U.S. senators argued last year, would-be terrorist Richard Reid was one match strike away from igniting explosives in the heel of his shoe aboard a Paris-to-Miami flight.
Other industry observers have said it is disheartening that the TSA and Congress still must tinker with a security problem brought to light in December 2001, rather than focusing on larger issues such as air cargo security or general aviation security.
"You can point to bureaucracy, point to what you like," said David Forbes, president of Colorado-based aviation logistics and government security analysts BoydForbes. "Once you learn a lesson, you apply it. After three years and a huge taxpayers' investment, we have gained virtually zero."
And some question how effectively a ban on lighters, and particularly on matches, could be implemented.
"In some cases it may be difficult to enforce," said David Stempler, president of the Washington, D.C.-based Air Travelers Association. "Many won't show up on X-rays."
Some airports - Hartsfield-Jackson Atlanta and Denver, for example - have smoking lounges or areas that could be equipped with lighters similar to car lighters, Stempler said.
But more likely is that airport areas beyond the security checkpoints will become de facto nonsmoking zones, officials said. Some airports, including Dallas/Fort Worth, ban smoking everywhere inside the terminals.
TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Extended News; Government; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: airlinesecurity; airports; airsafety; bigbrother; homelandsecurity; lighters; nannystate; pufflist; smokers; tsa
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To: derllak
"I guess they haven't thought about someone running amok with fingernail clippers yet! "
Within the last 10 days a posting here on FR did report that a government "agent" was allowed to carry loaded hand gun aboard a commercial fight, but his fingernail clippers were confiscated.
Sorry, I do not have the link.
121
posted on
01/01/2005 9:32:11 AM PST
by
TYVets
(God so loved the world he didn't send a committee)
To: gogogodzilla
"Shhh, the TSA might be reading this thread and might get some ideas."
The age old question, does one have to have the ability to think to have an idea?
122
posted on
01/01/2005 9:36:05 AM PST
by
TYVets
(God so loved the world he didn't send a committee)
To: wagglebee
"After all, two U.S. senators argued last year, would-be terrorist Richard Reid was one match strike away from igniting explosives in the heel of his shoe aboard a Paris-to-Miami flight."
Well, at least they didn't try to ban shoes. Ooops, don't give them any ideas!
To: TexKat
"I think I'll go into the airline business. I'll name my company Nudist Airlines. Passengers will be subject to full body x-rays prior to boarding. No carry on luggage, matter of fact, no luggage at all
That should take care of everything."Hehehehe :}}}}} Thank you
124
posted on
01/01/2005 10:00:05 AM PST
by
anonymoussierra
(Szczêœliwego Roku!!! Happy 2005 New Year good persons!!)
To: wagglebee
[ Airports to ban cigarette lighters beyond checkpoints ]
What you get when a liberal considers national security..
This makes as much sense as running John Kerry for President..
This makes as much sense as being horrified by the Tsunami death but NOT by abortion death..
This makes as much sense as Not closing the southern american border.. and allowing dual Canadian/American citizenship..
125
posted on
01/01/2005 10:24:14 AM PST
by
hosepipe
(This propaganda has been ok'ed me to included some fully orbed hyperbole....)
To: konaice
Well I quit flying 2 years ago, so I am not up on the newest rules. This doesn't make me want to fly still. Thanks for the update.
126
posted on
01/01/2005 11:33:21 AM PST
by
packrat35
(reality is for people who can't face science fiction)
To: thoughtomator
Cause they dont smoke?
Sorry couldn't resist. But I agree, take away lighters from legal citizens but leave illegals in this country who bring illegal drugs with them. Hey who left the back door open?
Gee now I feel much more secure.
127
posted on
01/01/2005 1:28:03 PM PST
by
stopem
To: konaice
Butane lighters tend to flare at altitude, if turned up to high, they can throw a 1 foot long flame jet at altitude.What a remarkable observation. Funny I don't remember any foot long lighter flames in Denver at 5,200 feet elevation.
128
posted on
01/01/2005 1:52:57 PM PST
by
dickmc
To: dickmc
Set one at sea level.
Drive to Denver.
Hold it well away from your face.
129
posted on
01/01/2005 2:20:46 PM PST
by
konaice
(Doink Doink!)
To: LibWhacker
I haven't flown since 9/11 and won't
Easier and a whole lot less complicated to drive. If I don'
t have time to drive, I don't go.
130
posted on
01/01/2005 3:46:14 PM PST
by
gidget7
(God Bless America, and our President George W. Bush)
To: LibertarianInExile
true but as long as the ACLU is around, we can't conduct what they deem racial profiling. So we can't keep the borders safe. They and their flunkies are what's standing in the way of that.
131
posted on
01/01/2005 3:48:56 PM PST
by
gidget7
(God Bless America, and our President George W. Bush)
To: konaice
Set one at sea level. Drive to Denver. Hold it well away from your face. A great many of the throwaway plastic butane lighters do not even have a flame adjustment lever. Are they making special lighters for the rocky mountain region? :-)
132
posted on
01/01/2005 4:53:44 PM PST
by
dickmc
To: wagglebee
"We are reviewing the necessary changes that the Transportation Security Administration will need to make based on the new intelligence legislation," TSA spokeswoman Andrea McCauley said.Well, I'm not sure I'd call it that.
133
posted on
01/02/2005 11:36:38 AM PST
by
Still Thinking
(Disregard the law of unintended consequences at your own risk.)
To: wagglebee
If I fart on a plane, is that considered use of chemical warfare?
134
posted on
01/02/2005 11:37:59 AM PST
by
Still Thinking
(Disregard the law of unintended consequences at your own risk.)
To: jwpjr
YOU HAVE GOT TO BE KIDDING ME! The accident was due to members of the flight crew playing around with controls whose function they were unsure of????? I don't know what is most scary, that the crew members don't know what each and every item is and what it does, that they play with stuff that falls into that category on an aircraft in flight, or that there were two such morons on the same flight!
135
posted on
01/02/2005 11:58:26 AM PST
by
Still Thinking
(Disregard the law of unintended consequences at your own risk.)
To: konaice
Set one at sea level.
Drive to Denver.
Hold it well away from your face.
You told him to do everything EXCEPT flick the lighter! ;-)
136
posted on
01/02/2005 12:01:04 PM PST
by
Still Thinking
(Disregard the law of unintended consequences at your own risk.)
To: LibWhacker
The thing to do is stay home unless you absolutely have to travel. Spend your vacation dollars locally and help improve your local economy. Use your auto, train, bus,
skateboard or whatever. Screw the airlines and the idiots that decree such BS.
137
posted on
01/02/2005 12:14:50 PM PST
by
JoeBob
(If you live like sheep the wolves will eat you.)
To: Still Thinking
I looked up the accident on the NTSB web site and they reported the cause for the overspeeding of the engine was uncertain. I think the report I was looking at might have been an early report, not the final report. I'll look around for more info.
Did you see the program on National Geographic today about the British Airways flight that left England for Spain and less than 20 minutes into the flight the windshield on the captain's side was lost? Unbelievable program. The captain was sucked right out through the hole left by the missing windshield! Apparently he got stuck by his knees and two members of the cabin crew were able to keep him from being pulled out of the cockpit completely. They were at 17,000 feet when the windshield went. They had some pretty scary news footage, some of it showed the aircraft from above with the captain's body hanging out the window! It was 1 degree above zero at that altitude. It was an older model aircraft and it did not have enough O2 on board for all of the crew and passengers, so the second officer put the plane into a steep dive to get down to 7,000 feet as quickly as possible. The noise and wind in the cockpit made it all but impossible to communicate at first, but he was eventually able to make an emergency landing at the nearest airport. He had no charts for the airport and no one to help him fly the plane. They had to land with a full load of fuel on a runway that was about 2,600 feet shorter than what they would have needed. It was an amazing story. They were afraid to let loose of the captain's body for fear it would damage a wing or get sucked into the #1 engine. Part of the time his bloody face was pressed up against the side window on the right side. Pretty gruesome. The co-pilot did a marvelous job of getting the aircraft on the ground safely. The removed the captain's and put it in an ambulance BUT ON THE WAY TO THE MORGUE HE CAME TO! He had a broken arm and hand and frostbite, but fully recovered and was back in command of an airliner in five months! What a story! The window came out because they had changed it the night before and used screws that were just a tiny bit too small for the job. On this particular model of the aircraft the window is on the OUTSIDE of the fuselage and without the screws it just blew right out. Newer models have the window's edges inside a lip on the fuselage so that the pressure of the cabin makes it tighter, not able to fall out. Whew! Sorry to be so long winded, but it was one of the best such programs I have ever seen. It's part of a National Geographic series on airline disasters.
138
posted on
01/02/2005 9:31:58 PM PST
by
jwpjr
To: jwpjr
Wow. Amazing story. I'd love to see it if it's ever on the schedule here or if I can rent it. I'll bet they were glad they hung on to the captain when they found out he was alive!
139
posted on
01/03/2005 6:47:09 AM PST
by
Still Thinking
(Disregard the law of unintended consequences at your own risk.)
To: Still Thinking
re: glad they hung on to the captain
Tbey spent a good deal of time talking about how they considered letting go of the 'body'. They were sure he was already dead, especially after 20 plus minutes at 1 below 0. They could not talk about it amongst themselves, there was so much notice in the cockpit that communication was impossible. In the final analysis it was concern for damage that might be done by having the body crash into a wing, the tail section or being ingested into the engine on that side, not that he might still be alive. They were also concerned about the amount of wind that would enter the cockpit once the opening was no longer being partially blocked by the body. The captain was aware of what was going on for several minutes after the decompression. Probably the best single aviation accident related program that I have ever seen. I plan to try to buy the tape. Brings to mind my Mom's old saying "believe in miracles, but don't depend on them."
140
posted on
01/03/2005 7:18:32 AM PST
by
jwpjr
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