> FALSE - conclusion (Consequently, it is equally valid) based on false assumption and generalizations.
Bingo. Now, if only your irony detector was functioning, you might have understood the gist of things. Consider the phrase "equally valid." Zero equals zero.
>How did the natural laws of the universe come into being without Intelligent Design (Creation)?
By not having a Creator. There is no evidence that natural laws *need* a creator. Without knowing how many universes there are or have been, there is no way - ZERO - to determine what the statistical likelihood of our current setup is. And even if this universe is the sole example that ever was or ever will be, and jsut through random chance it has laws and constants that are consistent with our form of life... so what? Shuffle things around so that physics and math are very different, and maybe some other form of life would be possible. It is only PRIDE that causes people to think that the universe was ordered just to make *them* possible. It is astonishing hubris on a cosmic scale.
> the probability of chaos organizing itself into order is ...
About 100%. It happens all the time. Consider a hailstorm: while falling, the orientation of the individual little blobs of ice is complete chaos. but when they hit the ground, the more there are, the more ordered becomes the overall orientation. Consider water vapor in the air: completely chaotic. But lower the temperature, and that water vapor forms itself into neatly ordered water ice crystals.
Order out of chaos is not new or unusual.
> The laws of the universe are so intricately and delicately woven together
No, they're not. That's not a scientific statement, but basically just wishful poetry.
> my question to you is "who, if not God, designed and created" all of these laws?
Dunno. However, one perfectly reasonable answer is: "Nobody."
> FALSE - conclusion (Consequently, it is equally valid) based on false assumption and generalizations.
Bingo. Now, if only your irony detector was functioning, you might have understood the gist of things. Consider the phrase "equally valid." Zero equals zero.
I believe I do understand the 'gist of things' - irony detector not needed.
>How did the natural laws of the universe come into being without Intelligent Design (Creation)?
By not having a Creator. There is no evidence that natural laws *need* a creator.
So you assert that the natural laws of the universe organized themselves out of an infinite number of random variables to provide order and structure to the universe. Rubbish (see Random Chance? below.) If they were not created, then they have always existed. If they have always existed, then time does not exist, because time has a beginning, a middle, and an end. If time does not exist, then nothing can change, life and death do not exist, movement through space can not occur.
Without knowing how many universes there are or have been, there is no way - ZERO - to determine what the statistical likelihood of our current setup is.
Of course there is. Using modern computers, mathematics, physics, statistics, etc. a competent cosmologist can calculate the probabilities based on one universe or a billion.
And even if this universe is the sole example that ever was or ever will be, and jsut through random chance it has laws and constants that are consistent with our form of life... so what?
Random Chance? That is analogous to saying that a man walking through the woods and finding a watch must conclude that the watch assembled itself from all of its parts after 1st creating its parts and that since it measures time, it must have also created time. Random Chance depends upon cause and effect, matter, energy, and time. Without matter, there is nothing for random chance to act upon. Without energy, there is nothing for random chance to act with. Without time, there is no motion for random chance to occur. Without cause and effect, random chance has no results. All of these - cause and effect, matter, energy, and time – obey the natural laws of the universe which must exist PRIOR to Random Chance having the capacity to occur. Thus, Random Chance can not create the laws of the universe because it depends upon said laws to occur. Therefore, it is illogical to claim that the natural laws of the universe were created by Random Chance.
Shuffle things around so that physics and math are very different, and maybe some other form of life would be possible.
And if pigs had wings, they could fly. The reality is our universe and forms of life. No scientist has seriously proposed a workable model of an alternate universe based on very different math and physics with sound theoretical principals. That’s strictly Ray Bradbury stuff.
It is only PRIDE that causes people to think that the universe was ordered just to make *them* possible. It is astonishing hubris on a cosmic scale.
Not pride, but humility in acknowledging a higher power.
> the probability of chaos organizing itself into order is ...
About 100%. It happens all the time. Consider a hailstorm: while falling, the orientation of the individual little blobs of ice is complete chaos. but when they hit the ground, the more there are, the more ordered becomes the overall orientation. Consider water vapor in the air: completely chaotic. But lower the temperature, and that water vapor forms itself into neatly ordered water ice crystals.
Order out of chaos is not new or unusual.
You are playing with semantics. Your examples are based on ‘chaos theory’ applied to chaotic systems which is about finding the underlying order in apparently random data. Your examples are not ABSOLUTE CHAOS which is what I intended in my post. Your examples MUST have the natural laws of the universe in order to work. My reference is to ABSOLUTE CHAOS which is the complete absence of all the natural laws of the universe, the disordered state of unformed matter and infinite space existing before the ordered universe. As pointed out earlier, it is illogical to claim that the natural laws of the universe were created by Random Chance.
> The laws of the universe are so intricately and delicately woven together
No, they're not. That's not a scientific statement, but basically just wishful poetry.
So, you do not believe that the laws of the universe are intricately and delicately woven together, but just mere happenstance – an accident based on random nothingness? If only your opinion detector were functioning, you would have recognized this as an opinion. An opinion, BTW, which is shared by many leading scientists and cosmologists (cos·mol·o·gy: The study of the physical universe considered as a totality of phenomena in time and space.). Here’s one: (emphasis added)
Probably the world's greatest observational cosmologist is Allan Sandage. Sandage works in Pasadena, California at the Carnegie Observatories. In 1991, he received a prize given by the Swedish academy that is given every six years in physics for cosmology and is worth the same amount of money as the Nobel prize (there is not a Nobel Prize given for cosmology). Sandage has even been called "the grand old man of cosmology by the New York Times.
At the age of 50, Sandage became a Christian. He states in Lightman's book, Origins: The Lives and Worlds of Modern Cosmologists, The nature of God is not to be found within any part of the findings of science. For that, one must turn to the Scriptures. When asked the famous question regarding whether it's possible to be a scientist and a Christian, Sandage replies, "Yes. The world is too complicated in all its parts and interconnections to be due to chance alone. I am convinced that the existence of life with all its order in each of its organisms is simply too well put together."
And another:
Dr. "Fritz" Schaefer is the Graham Perdue Professor of Chemistry and the director of the Center for Computational Quantum Chemistry at the University of Georgia. He has been nominated for the Nobel Prize and was recently cited as the third most quoted chemist in the world. "The significance and joy in my science comes in the occasional moments of discovering something new and saying to myself, 'So that's how God did it!' My goal is to understand a little corner of God's plan." --U.S. News & World Report, Dec. 23, 1991.
> my question to you is "who, if not God, designed and created" all of these laws?
Dunno. However, one perfectly reasonable answer is: "Nobody."
Your answer does not seem so reasonable to me. I believe that the only reasonable and logical answer is: “GOD”!