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Bush Immigration Plan Would Allegedly 'Destroy the Middle Class'
www.townhall.com ^ | 29 December 2004 | Jeff Johnson

Posted on 12/29/2004 6:21:51 AM PST by Ginifer

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To: Dane
If you want to come here, work hard, become an American and do it through legal means--I am all for it.

My issue is--I don't think it is wise to take in some many immigrants from one single country or even ethnic group. I would not care if it was Sweden that they were coming from. It is about preserving our way of life and system of governement or what is left of it.

121 posted on 12/29/2004 10:28:37 AM PST by riri
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To: tkathy
A total lie is being foisted on the middle class.

You're 100% correct. In California the construction jobs, gardening jobs, cement mason jobs, tile jobs, plumbing jobs, nanny jobs, service industry jobs, hospital worker jobs, housekeeping jobs, others than I can't think of right now, have been overwhelmingly taken over by illegal aliens who bring American wages down by working for less while we, the taxpayers, pay for their medical care and everything else. All these jobs have always provided a living wage to American workers. Now many of these Americans are losing their homes because of wage undercutting by illegal aliens.

I believe the President's idiotic answer to this problem was to tell these Americans to go back to school. He is so out of touch with America that it's bordering on treason. He is dancing with Mexico, and one has to wonder why an American president would do this when he knows it's not in the best interest of his own countrymen.

122 posted on 12/29/2004 10:30:27 AM PST by janetgreen
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To: hchutch
Let's be honest here - supply is merely catching up with demand when it comes to labor. If FAIR/CIS/Malkin/Tancredo and others complaining about the President's guest worker program are positive that there are Americans willing to do these jobs, why don't they try to get folks who are currently on the welfare rolls to do them?

Are you suggesting the welfare rolls aren't an option at all?

To whatever extent they aren't, Tom Tancredo's BE REAL act has provisions which address the deficiencies of our immigration procedures while meeting our labor needs with a generous guest worker program that doesn't legalize a single illegal alien. See Subtitle B, about 5/6 of the way down the page for specifics on Tancredo's guest worker program.

123 posted on 12/29/2004 10:35:10 AM PST by Fatalis
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To: churchillbuff
On every immigration thread we see the same old pign lists of depressing people whining and moaning about immigrants taking all the jobs and depressing wages.

If they opened their eyes and looked up for a few minutes they might discover that we aren't in the midst of a great depression, but instead are enjoying unprecedented prosperity.

Take a look at a different type thread such as Job Creation In US Strong and see what's going on with the rest of the FReepers.

Some people will always be chronically unemployed and underemployed. They will never be able to compete with other employees, regardless of their citizenship.

124 posted on 12/29/2004 10:36:18 AM PST by bayourod (The states and cities with large immigrant labor pools are the prosperous ones.)
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To: Uncle Vlad
If the GOP does nothing about this serious problem in the next two years, they can forget about retaining the White House in 2008. Faithful Republicans who came out and voted in droves and even worked hard on campaigns this year won't even bother to show up in 2006 and 2008.

I suspect that's how it's going to work.

125 posted on 12/29/2004 10:38:05 AM PST by citizen (Yo W! Read my lips: No Amnistia by any name!)
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To: Fatalis; Poohbah

I happen to think that AgJobs or Senator McCain's proposals work far better with much less red tape for businesses in this country. I'd much rather not give Tancredo any credit at all, particualrly given his decision to work with the likes of Buchanan.


126 posted on 12/29/2004 10:38:11 AM PST by hchutch (A pro-artificial turf, pro-designated hitter baseball fan.)
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To: riri
My issue is--I don't think it is wise to take in some many immigrants from one single country or even ethnic group. I would not care if it was Sweden that they were coming from. It is about preserving our way of life and system of governement or what is left of it

And the same was said in political rhetoric almost verbatim a century ago about those "dirty" Italians, Irish, Poles, and Jews.

The more things change, the more they stay the same.

127 posted on 12/29/2004 10:38:31 AM PST by Dane (trial lawyers are the parasites to wealth creating society)
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To: bayourod
No it won't. It never has before.

We've never had such a large and homogeneous, non-English speaking population, including millions of illegals, from a contiguous country, with a growing non-English mass media market inside our borders before.

Accurate historical analogies don't need to be such a struggle for you, but you'll need to acquire some intellectual honesty to be up to the task.

128 posted on 12/29/2004 10:40:18 AM PST by Fatalis
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To: tkathy

The lie about the jobs being ones that Americans don't want is more pronounced in rural areas where jobs are more scarce. At the Farmland meat processing plant in Monmonth,IL, workers are 50% immigrants. Farmland won't comment any further on it.


129 posted on 12/29/2004 10:41:02 AM PST by virgil
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To: Budweiser

I'm sorry to see Bush in the spin cycle! Gags me.

One thing: Yes, this issue of the supposed jobs that no American wants is NOW affecting more middle class workers, which will get the issue more exposure. But, I think the real tragedy is that it has ALREADY negatively impacted the lower class workers.

The dadgummed government ought to make it easier for all businesses to hire American workers -- employer paid taxes, OSHA bull crap, labor laws, insurance, etc. are all contributing to the problem. Who can blame a small construction company for wanting to circumvent all that crapola! NOT THAT I CONDONE IT.

BTW, it is politically incorrect to say "lower class????"

<><


130 posted on 12/29/2004 10:42:26 AM PST by viaveritasvita (May all your troubles last as long as your New Year's resolutions! HAPPY NEW YEAR Y'ALL!)
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To: Torie
I said nothing of the sort, and don't believe that, and have never posted that, and have posted to the contrary.

Highly suspicious all by itself.

131 posted on 12/29/2004 10:42:42 AM PST by Fatalis
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To: janetgreen
I believe the President's idiotic answer to this problem was to tell these Americans to go back to school. He is so out of touch with America that it's bordering on treason. He is dancing with Mexico, and one has to wonder why an American president would do this when he knows it's not in the best interest of his own countrymen

When did everybody in the country become a JanetGreen? And don't give me some unscientific online poll saying such as a rebuke.

Maybe instead of shouting and whining about your one issue incessantly, maybe you should look at the fact that Bush is the first President in trying to deal with a problem that has been festering for 40 years.

132 posted on 12/29/2004 10:44:07 AM PST by Dane (trial lawyers are the parasites to wealth creating society)
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To: B4Ranch
So is your daughter going to work on your ranch the rest of her life or would you like to see her get a good white collar job?

You know of course that you can't have white collar jobs without blue collar laborers don't you.

What do you tell a young person who studies hard in school to get an MBA only to find that all the companies in America have closed or moved over seas because the anti-immigrant crowd made operating in the US impractical?

If your daughter does eventually move away who are you going to get to replace her doing the dirty work on your ranch? American industry can't be based on owners' children doing all the work.

133 posted on 12/29/2004 10:47:30 AM PST by bayourod (The states and cities with large immigrant labor pools are the prosperous ones.)
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To: hchutch
But honor students, maids, nannies, janitors, and even folks serving in the armed forces (one of the first Marines KIA in the liberation of Iraq was an illegal immigrant) - hey, I'll take those folks over a Michael Moore, a Barbara Streisand, or a Natalie Maines any time.

I wasn't aware of the option of letting you decide whether some illegal aliens are more acceptable than some Americans. Has this legislation been introduced?

134 posted on 12/29/2004 10:47:56 AM PST by Fatalis
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To: Dane
I see your point. But, you see you are listing various groups of people each with their own customs, beliefs, etc. we are importing the Mexican way of life. I personally do not want to live in a watered down version of Mexico. I can drive three hours from my house and see Mexico in all it's glory and it aint pretty.

We seem to think that because we have this democratic tradition others will naturally gravitate toward it. I think they simply gravitate to what they know. Especially when the left in this country will not allow American tradition and history to be taught in public schools. The combination of this influx and the left in this country is baaad news, IMO.

Also, I would like to add--I have a good friend, mother of my daughter's friend--who is Mexican. Her father came here illegally and became a citizen under Reagan's amnesty. So, she is a first generation American citizen. Even so, Spanish is the language spoken in her house and she is Mexican first. Her loyalty is to Mexico and (love her to death but) she is one of the most racist people I have ever come across. Most Mexicans are.

135 posted on 12/29/2004 10:48:28 AM PST by riri
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To: Bikers4Bush

If you look at the cost of these illegals on the localities, the property taxes have risen exponentially. The result has been less and less younger families can afford a home or middle class people staying in their homes.

I live in NY. The results of these illegals have been disastrous.


136 posted on 12/29/2004 10:48:34 AM PST by chris1 ("Make the other guy die for his country" - George S. Patton Jr.)
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To: viaveritasvita
The dadgummed government ought to make it easier for all businesses to hire American workers -- employer paid taxes, OSHA bull crap, labor laws, insurance, etc. are all contributing to the problem. Who can blame a small construction company for wanting to circumvent all that crapola! NOT THAT I CONDONE IT

Uh if you haven't noticed, Bush has been trying to do that(i.e get rid of onerous liberal govt. regulations from years gone past), but for some reason the people bitiching about Bush on this thread are never on those threads praising him for taking on the liberal press, when he does try to take on the onerous regulations that have been passed in the last 30 years.

137 posted on 12/29/2004 10:48:51 AM PST by Dane (trial lawyers are the parasites to wealth creating society)
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To: bayourod
"If they opened their eyes and looked up for a few minutes they might discover that we aren't in the midst of a great depression, but instead are enjoying unprecedented prosperity."

Don't get excited over Fool's Gold, rod.

The "prosperity" you see in the corporate sector is where Americans are being displaced by those working for lesser wages/benefits, therefore corporate "profits" are higher, which increases shareholder value.

But, to the average American, their cost of living increases disproportionally to their wage increases, making their "living wage" less and less. It is "undocumented workers", felon employers, and corrupt politicians who are equally responsible for that downward spiral trend. Compare IT wages of six years ago with today's; compare construction workers' wages of ten years ago with today's. It is glaringly apparent they have lost ground.

Some are not so easily fooled by smoke and mirror images of corporate or Wall Street prosperity in comparison to the real world of daily life.

138 posted on 12/29/2004 10:50:51 AM PST by azhenfud ("He who is always looking up seldom finds others' lost change...")
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To: rolling_stone

"Teenagers have never done the hard dirty manual labor that adult immigrant males and blacks have done."

When I was 12 y/o my dad got me a job with a fence contractor and I mixed cement, dug post holes all day. It was hard labor, and paid well.

I made more than as a 13y/o than they pay illegals. Its exploitation. The businesses don't care because after these people can no longer work, they will just try to go on disability or welfare.


139 posted on 12/29/2004 10:51:50 AM PST by chris1 ("Make the other guy die for his country" - George S. Patton Jr.)
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To: Fatalis

I wasn't aware I was unallowed to have an opinion on the matter.


140 posted on 12/29/2004 10:53:23 AM PST by hchutch (A pro-artificial turf, pro-designated hitter baseball fan.)
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