From IAF ThunderPilot
Posted on 12/27/2004 7:30:36 AM PST by SJackson
We will continue the struggle to make your dream and our dream come true and to have a Palestinian child raise the Palestinian flag on the walls of Jerusalem, the capital of our independent state." - Mahmoud Abbas, December 21, 2004.
Hold on there. Who said anything about giving even part of Jerusalem to the Palestinians? And Abbas' insistence on the "right of return" is a deal-breaker from the start.
Not only Abbas, but also British and Israeli Prime Ministers Tony Blair and Ariel Sharon either definitively or implicitly project future negotiations will lead to an independent Palestinian state. Maybe the end result will be an independent state, but let's not move so swiftly in that direction. It is dangerous.
Actually, there are too many quickly moving developments in Israeli-Palestinian relations since Yasser Arafat died. Those who will participate in shaping the future of Israel and the Palestinians need to step back and give every proposal the fullest consideration.
Abbas, the front-runner to replace Arafat as president of the Palestinian Authority in the January 9th election, was probably playing to the masses when he declared his backing for the "right of return", which would allow four million Arabs to flood Israel proper. He knows that Israel will never agree to it. He made the aforementioned remark about Jerusalem when praising Arafat on Tuesday, as he observed the end of Arafat's 40-day mourning period, according to the New York Times.
A week ago, Prime Minister Sharon said, "For their part, the Palestinians can then also live in dignity and freedom in an independent state."
Nobody should be pressing for specific plans until negotiations begin. Especially, none of the parties should proclaim pre-conditions for the negotiations. Abbas needs to rethink his position if he expects negotiations to begin where the Camp David meetings left off. Israelis are not going to give the Palestinians anything on a silver platter. Israel has slim reason to trust the Palestinian leadership or their people after four years of a war that the Arabs initiated and which left more than 1,000 Israelis dead. Is it wise to just jump into a settlement? After all the work is done, will Abbas and other Palestinian leaders follow through with a reasonable settlement?
The negotiations need to open with a blank slate, no matter how anticipated will be the most crucial proposals. Any issue can be placed on the table, but the necessity for each proposal must be justified and the proposing party must prove they can fulfill their obligations. As a prime example, Palestinian negotiators must explain why they need an independent state and demonstrate how they will operate such a state in a peaceful and responsive manner. As to a Palestinian state, many people assume that is the solution, and hardcore supporters of Israel are dead set against it. Is it the answer? On what basis? There are likely other options. All possibilities should be carefully weighed.
In addition, all parties must be open to progressive agreements rather than solely a final solution tied together all at one time. If they are at an impasse on some delicate issues, why not settle on what they agree upon and return to the other matters later? If they insist on wrapping up everything together, then many innocent people could suffer for their intransigence.
For every agreed-upon provision, they need to prepare a detailed plan for implementing it. And both Israelis and Palestinians must be held accountable to follow through with their agreements.
When I raised these issues in an e-mail exchange, an advocate for the Palestinians insisted that Israel be compelled to justify its existence. Not a problem. Like I said, any issue can be placed on the table according to this proposal. If Israel's delegates cannot argue on behalf of Israel's existence, they should look for new jobs.
That's mighty big talk, fool. You will never have it.
"We will continue the struggle to make your dream and our dream come true and to have a Palestinian child raise the Palestinian flag on the walls of Jerusalem, the capital of our independent state."
As long as the IDF are here- in your dreams muhammed, in your dreams.
-"Never Again!!!"
P.S
God will have its final word on that.
Abu Mazen repeats hard line on Jerusalem, refugees, etc.
Abbas begins election campaign citing Arafat's legacy By Arnon Regular, Haaretz Correspondent, and The Associated Press 26 December 2006
www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/518888.html
[IMRA: Abu Mazen's hard line is not new - it is consistent with his stand over the years.]
Chairman of the Palestine Liberation Organization Mahmoud Abbas (Abu Mazen) began his public bid to succeed the late Yasser Arafat at a rally Saturday in the West Bank town of Al-Bireh, near Ramallah.
Hundreds of supporters turned up to hear the candidate for the post of chairman of the Palestinian Authority announce that the Palestinians would adhere to the UN Resolutions 242 and 194 in order to claim their rights for a Palestinian state through a negotiated peace.
"We are loyal to the national principles and demand the removal of the separation fence and an end to settlements. We will not accept settlements, and that includes Ma'aleh Adumim, Gush Etzion and Ariel," Abbas said.
One of the most dominant aspects of the Abbas campaign, in anticipation of the January 9 elections, is the link to Yasser Arafat. Though the two had a troubled relationship, culminating in the resignation of Abbas as Prime Minister four months after being appointed by Arafat, Abbas stressed he would preserve the Arafat legacy and deliver on his promise of Palestinian statehood.
Abbas called on Israel to end its occupation of the West Bank, Gaza Strip and East Jerusalem and said he favored a negotiated peace settlement and promised to respect the rights of Palestinian refugees.
"We are choosing the path of peace and negotiation," said Abbas. "If there is no peace here, there will be no peace in the Middle East or the rest of the world."
Abbas appears alongside Arafat in campaign posters and advertisements that ran in Palestinian newspapers yesterday. "Comrades in revolution," read one poster of the two men.
More than a dozen speakers - religious leaders and representatives of student groups, refugees and people injured during the four years of fighting with Israel - introduced Abbas, nearly all of them invoking Arafat's legacy and praising Abbas' commitment to follow in his path.
"Out of respect for Arafat, we are with Abu Mazen," Taissir Tamimi, a top Islamic cleric, said.
In his speech, Abbas called for a moment of silence for Arafat, saying no one could fill the void he left.
"Whatever you said on various occasions, whatever you talked about in different meetings... is your will, and it is our duty to carry it out as long as we live," he said, symbolically addressing Arafat.
Israel and the United States have quietly supported Abbas, whom they see as a pragmatist.
He appealed for Israel to release all Palestinian prisoners, especially jailed uprising leader Marwan Barghouti. Barghouti, a Fatah rival of Abbas', pulled out of the race under intense party pressure.
Abbas also pledged to resolve the problem of hundreds of thousands of Palestinian refugees, calling the issue "very important and very dangerous."
Militant group Hamas welcomed Abbas' speech, including his call for legislative elections, but urged him to follow through. "What is important for us is the implementation and the translation of these promises from words to deeds," Hamas spokesman Sami Abu Zuhri said.
Human-rights activist Mustafa Barghouti, who is running a distant second to Abbas in opinion polls, kicked off his campaign with his own effort to harness Arafat's popularity, laying a wreath at the late leader's tomb.
"Put the cause in safe hands," Barghouti says in one ad, a picture of Jerusalem's Dome of the Rock mosque in the background.
With the powerful Fatah party machinery behind him, Abbas is expected to coast to victory.
Quite the contrary. Abbas knows exactly what he's doing. After all, Israel just released 159 'palestinian' terrorists. Abbas knows he can stir the pot and the masses and receive concessions before negotiations even begin.
Why? Is it only too apparent how your people are forced to live like pigs while you spend their money? Can the world see too clearly that you need to live off of the Jews? If you ever did possess Israel, it would turn into the slum you live in now. It is beautiful because of the Jews.
"If there is no peace here, there will be no peace in the Middle East or the rest of the world."
We know that, you Jew and American hater. The world needs to rid itself of your kind, not negotiate.
"Comrades in revolution
Truth in advertising.
Amen, IAF, you preach it!
Till the Palestinian-controlled areas are a blank slate, there will never be peace. An integral part of the fiction that is Palestinian identity is rampant, drooling, psychotic Jew-hatred. The entire notion that there is any such thing as a "Palestinian" needs to be invalidated. But of course, it won't be...
It is the opening negotion position for any legitimate Palistinean leader. Be patient and wait and see what this man does before condemning him. He has no choice in terms of his public rhetoric. I for one am an optimist willing to wait and see what may come of this process now that the greatest wall ever known (Aratfat) is no longer.
"...Abbas called for a moment of silence for Arafat, saying no one could fill the void he left."
A dead pig could.
I don't think anyone in Israel is failing to give Abbas a chance, least of all the Prime Minister. I think we need to remember we are talking about Yasser Arafat's lieutenant for decades, a man who wrote a book denying the Holocaust, and someone who has never formally accepted Israel's right to exist as a Jewish state.
Also, the term "legitimate" leader is pretty hard to comprehend in terms of the Palestinians. This is Arafat's chosen successor. No other "presidential candidate" has even the slightest chance of winning.
Abbas wants war, wants Israel's "liquidation" (wording from the PLO Charter), and Egypt and Syria are preparing another war. I don't think Syria's gov't is going to be able to participate, because it will be removed or otherwise unable to take part, and soon.
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