[lancer]

Is anyone familiar with Catherwood and his work? He seems to write pertinent stuff, but I have no idea what his agenda is. The fact that he worked for Blair on the Middle East problem is as much background as I have been able gather. Charmley is obvious in his bias, but does anyone have a handle on Catherwood?

[drt1]

Iraq is but one of the problems created by the Colonial Powers in the wake of the two WW's. Virtually all of the current day trouble spots have their origins in the hubris of these individuals who felt competent to redraw boundaries according to their biased, ignorant view of the world. India/Pakistan, Indonesia, Indo-China, Iraq, Israel/Palestine, Afghanistan, The Balkans and a number of other politically defined regions are testament to this approach and the results have and continue to come home to roost.

[Cicero]

I suppose it depends what you mean by a successful empire. The Ottoman Turks destroyed the Eastern Roman empire, and nearly conquered Vienna. They prevailed, IMHO, mainly by sheer ruthlessness. It was commonplace at many times for the Sultan to kill off all the other males in his family to prevent succession disputes. Slavery was widely practiced. Neighboring Christians were raided, killed, and enslaved. And so forth.

Sure, a Muslim ruler can keep Muslims in line by severely oppressing them and killing those who offend him. But then you're stuck with a bunch of Muslims eager to conquer everyone else and add to their Muslim-controlled world.

Maybe the editors of The Guardian would like to live in a Muslim world, but I doubt that many Americans would. So we need to find an alternative to a Turkish Sultan. After all, that seems to be the only solution this article has to suggest. They don't exactly say it, but what else does their article imply?

[txzman]

Although Iraq was the scene for one of the worst British military failures in its history, so was Afghanistan and America.

Iraq is now the crucible to bring forces together. The American public needs to understand this is a war, not an isolated theater.

In a side note, has anyone been listening to the NPR drum beat of 'American Failure' and 'American Death'? In our house we push the kitchen radio button as fast as we can lunge.

Merry Christmas all our soldiers - so many Christian young men, and men who may not yet know God, trying to figure out what is happening.

[YOUGOTIT]

One could have said the same thing about Germany after WW II. The New York Times said we were in a quagmire that we could not get out of and over 1,000 American Military and dependents were killed by German insurgents after the war ended. It took us several years to bring about change in Germany and several trillion dollars, so this takes time. If one thinks the early 19th and 20th century are indicators of the possibilities of freedom and a representative government in the Middle East, they are comparing apples to oranges. The communications available today are such that if they are allowed to function, as they are doing, (Internet, TV, Radio and Print) they I will vote for freedom being the victor. Look at the younger generation in Iran and one gets a peek at the possibilities. To keep our country safe and our way of life viable the Middle East must be brought into the 21st century with freedom as its basis.

[Jim Noble]

Iraq was a mistake from the beginning, and our principal war aim should have been its dissolution.

Turning "Iraq" into a modern state is a fool's errand.

We need bases there for the suppression of Saudi Arabia, and we should take the oil, but the rest of it should be left to rot.

[jordan8]

Here is an article by Christopher Catherwood

as Napoleon once remarked, you can do anything with a bayonet - except sit on it

I believe it was Talleyrand who said this.

Apparently the Guardian thinks multiculturalism is bad when it forces Sunni, Shia, and Kurd to live together, unless they live in Britain.

[secretagent]

later