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To: Lindykim
I grew up in a Methodist church, and late in my twenties I drifted East and am now a Buddhist, but I attend Mass each week with my Catholic wife. I understand those religions a bit. Could someone, anyone, please tell me what the attraction of the Episcopal Church is, what does it offer beyond a tradition for those raised in it?

Last year I moved to the Puget Sound area, and driving into Seattle one day I noticed a large cathedral on a hill overlooking the city. I love sacred spaces, so I went to see what it was. It was St. Marks, the Episcopal Cathedral.

I went in the bookstore first to ask if one could go into the cathedral, and while there I noticed Christian books were easily outnumbered by books from other faiths.

Inside the Cathedral looked like an abandoned warehouse, and had all of the sacredness of one. It felt entirely bereft of any semblance of Divine presence. An empty shell. I'd never felt that way in any sacred structure before. It was hideous, and very disturbing.

Don't know if the whole Episcopal Church is dying, but that part of it sure has.

With respect, I ask anyone who still belongs what the attraction is or was?

3 posted on 12/26/2004 3:13:25 AM PST by dagogo redux (I never met a Dem yet who didn't understand a slap in the face, or a slug from a 45)
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To: dagogo redux

"With respect, I ask anyone who still belongs what the attraction is or was?"

The same attraction the unitarian univeralists and the aetheists offer: unconditional acceptance, disguised as unconditional love, as long as the attendee denies the existence of any absolute truth.


6 posted on 12/26/2004 3:21:01 AM PST by gobucks (http://oncampus.richmond.edu/academics/classics/students/Ribeiro/laocoon.htm)
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To: dagogo redux
Could someone, anyone, please tell me what the attraction of the Episcopal Church is, what does it offer beyond a tradition for those raised in it?

It's an early, formal, Protestant church that, in my town, was also attractive to those who belonged to Armenian, Russian, and Greek Orthodox sects, but who had no local church. Friends from other denominations who went to church with me a few times joined, because they sought formality. At the time, we were just teenagers, but one Baptist friend joined becase he thought a question asked after communion, "Anybody left out?" was flippant and irreverant.

In local New England tradition, the popular people went to the Congregational church, the "Swells" went to the Episcopal. The National Lampoon did a series once of various "hells" for different denominations-The Episcopalians were sent there "For eating oysters with the Dinner Fork."

The "High" version of the church maintained monastaries (Soc of St.James, among others) about which my RC friends would exasperatedly exclaim, "If you want to BE Catholic, why not BE Catholic???"{{Because Papal Infallability and the Veneration of Mary were rejected-Can't do much with that!!}}

All that said, I loved the Church as it once was, the Book of Common Prayer, the 1940 Hymnal ( I sang in the choir) , and if it ever returns to it, so shall I.

The short answer is that at one time, it was a formal and respectful service, highly nonsecular, and it meant business. It was also, IMO, a beautiful and moving service.

I feel like an old friend has died.

14 posted on 12/26/2004 4:05:20 AM PST by Gorzaloon
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To: dagogo redux
Lots of folks seemed to be attracted to the high-church formality wrapped around protestantism. The liturgy and ritual translated into a reverence for God that many feel is lacking in other protestant denominations.

But alas, as with so many of the mainline denominations, the Episcopal church has left its first love. It has a form of godliness, but denies the power therein. It is, as you observed - a collection of dead-men-walking.

16 posted on 12/26/2004 4:17:32 AM PST by anniegetyourgun
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To: dagogo redux
To answer your question, that aside from tradition or habit, there is no reason to attend the Episcopal church, or any other liberal denomination. They are all cut from the same cloth. Personally, I love the Anglican Book of Common Prayer and the denomination's liturgical tradition; however, the clergy don't believe the content of their own liturgy. When a denomination prides itself on being opened minded and nonjudgmental, it can't turn around and say to someone that this is what you're suppose to believe, and this is how you're suppose to behave. So why not have books from all religions?
17 posted on 12/26/2004 4:36:36 AM PST by Nosterrex
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To: dagogo redux

"Could someone, anyone, please tell me what the attraction of the Episcopal Church is, what does it offer beyond a tradition for those raised in it?"

Well, it is a liturgical church (like the Catholics), but without the rigid hierarchy, without the Pope. Like Catholics, we take communion every Sunday, whereas most Protestant churches rarely do. The prayer book (particularly the 1928 version, but even with the new language) is widely acknowledged to contain some of the most beautiful language ever written in English. And, I like it because Episcopal priests are almost always very well educated, and almost always they truly understand the world, having had secular careers prior to coming to the priesthood. Plus, since the priests not only can marry and have children, but are expected to, I believe they have a broader understanding of the human condition than Catholic priests.

I was raised in the Episcopal church but left not only the church but faith as a teen, only coming back to both in my early forties. I love my church, and don't want to leave, so I am just waiting to see what happens. Pretty much the only thing I could do would be to become a Catholic, and since I think the Catholic church is also wrong on a number of issues (although not as wrong as the Episcopal church), I would prefer not to do that. How can I abandon the church of John Donne, George Herbert, and C.S. Lewis to people so wrong-headed?

Regardless of denominational differences, though, it is important to remember that the Body of Christ has members in every church-- and that every church also has members who are not true believers. Whether we stay or go, whether we are of this church or that one, or have only a small circle of faithful friends, we are charged with being the salt and the light. Christ's church is eternal, no matter the rise and fall of any particular form that a segment of it may take.


19 posted on 12/26/2004 4:53:49 AM PST by walden
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To: dagogo redux

The attraction of the Episcopal Church is it preserves most of the Catholic tradition but is Protestant. For those of us who do not believe in transubstantiation, it would be a good choice.

I joined the Episcopal Church recently (after being a Methodist for over 40 years) and left more recently because of the appointment of Robinson. It is difficult to find a denomination that is not under attack by the left and compromising principles.

Then on the right of the Protestants there are some very principled denominations (or non-denominational), but they are flawed by the ridiculous convolutions of "literalism".



24 posted on 12/26/2004 5:17:52 AM PST by shubi (Peace through superior firepower.)
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To: dagogo redux
I drifted East and am now a Buddhist,

May I ask you, what attracts you to Buddism?

30 posted on 12/26/2004 5:35:45 AM PST by sirchtruth (Words Mean Things...)
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To: dagogo redux
Could someone, anyone, please tell me what the attraction of the Episcopal Church is, what does it offer beyond a tradition for those raised in it?

http://andromeda.rutgers.edu/~lcrew/365plus.html

57 posted on 12/26/2004 6:55:02 AM PST by boojumsnark (Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana.)
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To: dagogo redux
As satiric writer Florence King put it in her outstanding Wasp, Where is Thy Sting?,
"the Episcopal church is the 'Chivas Regal' of Protestantism. ... It is as far from shout 'n sing Protestantism as you can get without going to Rome; and well it should be, for the point of it all is to become as Catholic as possible without becoming Catholic....

58 posted on 12/26/2004 7:24:51 AM PST by CatoRenasci (Ceterum Censeo Arabiam Esse Delendam -- Forsan et haec olim meminisse iuvabit)
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To: dagogo redux
".... I ask anyone who still belongs what the attraction is or was?"

"WAS" is the correct terminology.

HERE

AND

HERE

When you boil it all down, there are really only two religions; the (God is sovereign) God-centered one, and the (man is sovereign) man-centered one.

It's quite instructive to notice how the man-centered one (in all of its various manifestations/organizations, including the religion of atheisism) all attempt to attain "perfection" through the efforts of man. The ideas of those who embrace that religion also follow this pattern.

Biblical Christianity: [1] The symptom is death, [2] the diagnosis is sin, [3] the prognosis is salvation, and [4] the prescription is repentance and faith. (Rm. 6:23 sums up all Christian theology).

The Man-centered religion --(even if they call it "Christianity" as many in The Religious Left do)--follows the "pattern", thus:

The "Four Noble Truths" comprise the whole of Buddhism, according to Buddha himself in the "Arrow Sermon." [1]to live is to suffer; all life is suffering. [2] the cause of suffering is selfish desire. [3] there is a way to end suffering and achieve Nirvana: namely, [4] to end desire. Take away the cause and you take away its effect. Fourth: the way to end desire is to practice the Noble Eight-fold Path, the Buddhist yoga of ego-reduction.

Freudianism also contains these four steps. [1]The symptoms are neurosis and psychosis. [2] The diagnosis says the cause is the conflict between id and superego, between individual animal desire and social norms. [3] The prognosis is homeostasis, or adjustment, a compromise of sorts. And [4] the prescription is psychoanalysis.

Marxism sees [1] the symptoms as class conflict, [2] the diagnosis is Capitalism, [3] the prognosis is the classless Communist society, and [4] the prescription is for a worldwide proletarian revolution.

Platonism sees [1] the symptoms as vice; [2] the diagnosis is ignorance; [3] the prognosis is virtue; and [4] the prescription is philosophical wisdom via the Socratic method.

And on and on, ad nauseum.

87 posted on 12/26/2004 12:25:33 PM PST by Matchett-PI (Today's DemocRATS are either religious moral relativists, libertines or anarchists.)
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To: dagogo redux; sionnsar; No_Outcome_But_Victory
I love sacred spaces, so I went to see what it was. It was St. Marks, the Episcopal Cathedral. I went in the bookstore first to ask if one could go into the cathedral, and while there I noticed Christian books were easily outnumbered by books from other faiths. Inside the Cathedral looked like an abandoned warehouse, and had all of the sacredness of one. It felt entirely bereft of any semblance of Divine presence. An empty shell. I'd never felt that way in any sacred structure before. It was hideous, and very disturbing.

Your impressions of St Mark's cathedral in Seattle fit with mine exactly. It is the see of an apostate diocese in an apostate church. Truth in advertizing would have us emblazon above the door "Ichabod" (the glory has departed). The Divine presence has also left. That is why the place feels so cavernous. I might also mention that it was built to withstand mortar fire and other types of blasts. St. Marks's is one of Seattle's fallout shelters. Tha way things are going out here the people might need to avail themselves of it.

104 posted on 12/26/2004 10:23:28 PM PST by LibreOuMort ("...But as for me, give me liberty or give me death!" - Patrick Henry)
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To: dagogo redux

Seems to me all you need to do to destroy a religion, is to get a moral relativist in charge of it. Now where, do you suppose, could you find any one like that?


114 posted on 07/08/2005 11:05:28 PM PDT by Frumious Bandersnatch
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