Ancient Peru Site Older, Much Larger

Seattle Times ^ | 12-23-2004 | Thomas H. Maugh

[Redbob]

"Construction started about 5,000 years ago — nearly 400 years before the first pyramid was built in Egypt — at a time when most people around the world were simple hunters and gatherers,..."

I resent statements like this!

My ancestors, while hunter-gatherers, were not simple! They had needs, and feelings.

Why, my own male forbears had vague unexpressed longings for wheels...

[Fedora]

Construction started about 5,000 years ago — nearly 400 years before the first pyramid was built in Egypt

They don't know when the first pyramid was built in Egypt, though.

[ASA Vet]

That regional flooding of the Black Sea was many thousands of miles from Peru.

[pabianice]

453 of these Andeans have been found to have voted for Kerry and Daschle last November...

[Betis70]

OK. I don't really know much about ancient China, so I'll have to take your word on that.

[Betis70]

Haas likes the spotlight. Don't know enough about this particular study to say one way or the other though.

[Strategerist]

If civilization got started in South America 5000 years ago, as it did in Egypt, India and China then what happened? Why did civilization advance in other parts of the world but not in South America or North America? Something does not compute.

If you're curious about that question, run, don't walk to your local bookstore or library and get "Guns, Germs, and Steel" by Jared Diamond. Amazing book.

He ended up writing the book after he visited New Guinea and made some friends among the tribesmen there, who struck him as very intelligent people, despite having a very primitive society, and one of them asked basically the same question you asked.

[Strategerist]

I agree. That would put it at the same time as the flood of Noah. There wouldn't be enough time to breed a new race of people and migrate to South America.

On the other hand, along with a lot of other overwhelming evidence, it might cause you to consider the possibility that at no time in human history has there been a worldwide flood.

[Betis70]

That book has been on my Amazon "Wish List" for far too long. Now with that glowing recommendation I'm gonna have to get it.

[Strategerist]

I've mentioned it on another thread and it was attacked by a few people; not really sure why, It certainly doesn't seem to have a leftist perspective or ideology at all to me.

Basically, Diamond he attacks the idea that certain cultures developed more slowly because the people of that culture were genetically inferior or stupid or something; he attributes the main reasons for development of societies to the local plant and animal life and geography of given areas.

[metacognative]

What if the continents were still slowing from The Event?
Peoples were still close across narrow seas....

[shekkian]

On the other hand, along with a lot of other overwhelming evidence, it might cause you to consider the possibility that at no time in human history has there been a worldwide flood.

Then again, you might consider that it was after the Tower of Babel incedent, perhaps a couple hundred years after the flood, when God created the different languages and scattered the people around the world.

[shekkian]

What if the continents were still slowing from The Event? Peoples were still close across narrow seas....

An interesting theory... We could ask Jesus when He comes back.

[balrog666]

Basically, Diamond he attacks the idea that certain cultures developed more slowly because the people of that culture were genetically inferior or stupid or something; he attributes the main reasons for development of societies to the local plant and animal life and geography of given areas.

Geography. You don't invent the wheel in the mountains. And you can't run away (very far) in the mountains.

Also you need widescale agriculture to support a large population and you can't plow a field without a plow, an ox, and fertile soil. Which means metal forging, large animal domestication, and bottomland. There are no large oxen-type mammals or horses in South America and the bottom land is mostly jungle/rain forest with low nutrient counts (except in the NW), etc.

[blam]

"Did you see the History Channels Modern Marvels last night, about Galen and the study of medicine?? That was fascinating. "

Yup. I did see that...some of it twice.

Merry Christmas

[ForGod'sSake]

Haas likes the spotlight. Don't know enough about this particular study to say one way or the other though.

My suspicion is, he doesn't either.

FGS

[blam]

An Origin Of New World Agriculture In Coastal Ecuador (12,000BP)

[ForGod'sSake]

Also you need widescale agriculture to support a large population and you can't plow a field without a plow, an ox, and fertile soil. Which means metal forging, large animal domestication, and bottomland. There are no large oxen-type mammals or horses in South America and the bottom land is mostly jungle/rain forest with low nutrient counts (except in the NW), etc.

Disagree. Manpower works just fine.

FGS

[blam]

Rainforest Researchers Hit Paydirt (Farming 11K Years Ago In South America)

[linear]

I just finished reading this book - I really enjoyed it. It would be very interesting if his theories could be extrapolated from the present. I'd imagine (in fact he seems to imply) that China enjoys the greatest confluence of these factors among individual nations and therefore would rise to pre-eminence in the long term.