[Ernie.cal]

Marriage is hard enough between two sexes that an appreciable percentage of them fail in divorce, despite the long-documented harm that does to the children and adults involved. The most likely long-term effects of allowing same-sex marriages are an increase in both the percentage of marriages ending in divorce, and the number of court cases involved with the rights of "married" couples and any children, at all levels of the system.?

So, your position is that equal protection of the law is not a right that should apply to all Americans regardless of their station in life. Instead, we should calculate whether or not the intended recipients will behave "correctly" so that there are no added costs to society from granting the right?

Perhaps we should re-visit the Civil Rights Act and apply your formula as follows:

"The most likely long-term effects of passing the Civil Rights Act are an increase in both the percentage of civil rights disputes clogging our court system, and the animosity caused by interminable disputes at all levels of our judicial system over housing, employment, voting, use of public funds, etc. How is that damage in any way equal to the benefit?"

[ApesForEvolution]

You sure talk a lot, Sen. Kolbe, but please just one yes or no. Or you're a TROLL that should be ZoTTed for dragging your Gay Activist Yakdung into FR.

The question *IS* totally relevant, Ernie. It's yes or no, 6th try:

Do you think it's appropriate for queer men (of the "WE'RE QUEER, WE'RE HERE!" fame) to french-kiss in front of children in public, Ernie? YES or NO

[Victoria Delsoul]

So, your position is that equal protection of the law is not a right that should apply to all Americans regardless of their station in life. Instead, we should calculate whether or not the intended recipients will behave "correctly" so that there are no added costs to society from granting the right?

Perhaps we should re-visit the Civil Rights Act...

Homosexuality goes to the conduct of an individual and not to those things that can't be changed or chosen as in race, nationality, ethnicity, sex, and age. Homosexuality as defined by the Merriam-Webster dictionary means:

1.of, relating to, or characterized by a tendency to direct sexual desire toward another of the same sex
2 : of, relating to, or involving sexual intercourse between persons of the same sex.

Civil rights don't protect conduct or behaviors, but protect individuals from discriminations due to the unchangeable way they were born.

[dr_pat]

I will continue to extend to you the assumption that you are seeking a serious debate, and not simply trolling for debate or dispute.

My argument was preceded by three points, which you omitted in quoting me (without the grace of an ellipsis): Promoting the use of government to force your neighbors to label gay unions "marriage" is

1. neither a libertarian stance nor an honest one [make your choice, don't worry about what I call it],
2. not likely to achieve the effect you desire [if "marriage" includes unions of which I do not approve, am I likely to label my own union "marriage"?],
3. another way to load up the courts with disputes about who meant what when they said the other.

So, your position is that equal protection of the law is not a right that should apply to all Americans regardless of their station in life.

No, my position is that government has no more business forcing me/anyone to hire someone because the law says I must, or forcing me/anyone to recognize qua marriage a civil union between partners of the same sex because the law says I must, than it has forcing me/anyone attend (or fail to attend) a religious ceremony.