Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

(Houston Mayor White's) Plan for red-light cameras stalls
Houston Chronicle ^ | Dec. 15, 2004, 2:52PM | By JOE STINEBAKER and LUCAS WALL

Posted on 12/17/2004 11:58:06 AM PST by weegee

Mayor Bill White's plan to use cameras to monitor red-light violations stalled today, when a scheduled vote before the City Council was delayed a week so that questions about the plan could be answered.

White has touted the proposal as a way to improve traffic enforcement without overtaxing Houston police, and supporters on the council had hoped to vote on it today after discussion on Tuesday. The discussion ran long, however, ensuring that there wouldn't be time today for the vote.

The administration wants to hire a company to mount cameras at 50 or more of the city's most dangerous intersections.


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Extended News; Government; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections; US: Texas
KEYWORDS: bigbother; bigbrother; fundraising; houston; mayorwhite; policecameras; redlights; revenueenhancement; taxdollarsatwork; texas
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-2021-28 next last

1 posted on 12/17/2004 11:58:07 AM PST by weegee
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: 1riot1ranger; Action-America; Aggie Mama; Alkhin; Allegra; American72; antivenom; Antoninus II; ...

Houston PING

Big Brother had his eye poked over this one but they aren't done trying to sell us this plan.


2 posted on 12/17/2004 11:58:58 AM PST by weegee (WE FOUGHT ZOGBYISM November 2, 2004 - 60 Million Voters versus 60 Minutes - BUSH WINS!!!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: weegee
White has touted the proposal as a way to improve traffic enforcement without overtaxing Houston police,

Hey mayor, how about cameras in yours and the councils' offices, as a way to cut down on government corruption without overtaxing the police?

3 posted on 12/17/2004 12:02:03 PM PST by BigBobber
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: weegee

Here in Houston, drivers do not head to traffic lights. It is almost a free for all.


4 posted on 12/17/2004 12:04:10 PM PST by mlbford2 ("Never wrestle with a pig; you can't win, you just get filthy, and the pig loves it...")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: weegee

If all you want to do is make the intersections safer, then just post fake cameras with big signs about monitoring. Minimal current and no future expense required.


5 posted on 12/17/2004 12:09:34 PM PST by The_Victor (Calvin: "Do tigers wear pajamas?", Hobbes: "Truth is we never take them off.")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: The_Victor
Minimal current and no future expense required.

From what I've read in Car and Driver, many of the red-light camera schemes are done at NO cost to the municipality. The system vendors install and maintain them for no charge other than a percentage of the revenue they generate.

6 posted on 12/17/2004 12:14:19 PM PST by newgeezer (Sarcasm content: 0.0000000%)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: weegee

As long as the authorities (1) resist the urge to decrease the duration of yellow lights and (2) monitor the process for accuracy, what's not to like about red-light cameras?


7 posted on 12/17/2004 12:15:40 PM PST by newgeezer (Sarcasm content: 0.0000000%)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: newgeezer

You have been denied to right to face your accuser in court. There is no accuser. It is a machine.

Broken red lights, right turn on red, and mistaken plate reading all result in phoney charges that would never be cited if an officer were present to ticket the driver instead.


8 posted on 12/17/2004 12:17:46 PM PST by weegee (WE FOUGHT ZOGBYISM November 2, 2004 - 60 Million Voters versus 60 Minutes - BUSH WINS!!!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: The_Victor

But, then you wouldn't reap the revenue that these things will produce, and that, in the end is the reason for this exercise. Bill White is a liberal Democrat -- fundraiser for Clinton, etc., and the red light cameras are merely another way to shake down the public, and add to the city coffers.


9 posted on 12/17/2004 12:18:05 PM PST by JRjr (hMMM?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: newgeezer

Yes, they get a private collection for public fines.


10 posted on 12/17/2004 12:18:16 PM PST by weegee (WE FOUGHT ZOGBYISM November 2, 2004 - 60 Million Voters versus 60 Minutes - BUSH WINS!!!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: BigBobber

(Hey mayor, how about cameras in yours and the councils' offices, as a way to cut down on government corruption without overtaxing the police?)

EXCELLENT POINT!


11 posted on 12/17/2004 12:22:36 PM PST by winner3000
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: weegee
I wonder what they are going to do, when all peoples insurance rates go up because of rear end collisions ? even thought the people were obeying the speed limit.
12 posted on 12/17/2004 12:24:04 PM PST by Prophet in the wilderness (PSALM 53 : 1 The ( FOOL ) hath said in his heart , There is no GOD .)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: newgeezer

And this is no cost because???????? Okay, no up front cost.

Seems to me that it makes the whole system suspect that the camera providers, the ones doing the maintenance and installation have a financial interest in fining people for traffic code enforcement. As a prosecutor, I'd have a hard time selling the "independence" and "lack of bias" of that witness.


13 posted on 12/17/2004 12:32:20 PM PST by HouTom
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: JRjr
But, then you wouldn't reap the revenue that these things will produce, and that, in the end is the reason for this exercise. Bill White is a liberal Democrat -- fundraiser for Clinton, etc., and the red light cameras are merely another way to shake down the public, and add to the city coffers.

In which case the purpose isn't safety, it's revenue.

14 posted on 12/17/2004 12:32:49 PM PST by The_Victor (Calvin: "Do tigers wear pajamas?", Hobbes: "Truth is we never take them off.")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

To: weegee
You have been denied to right to face your accuser in court. There is no accuser. It is a machine.

On the upside, while human accusers can be wrong (intentionally or not), the camera doesn't lie. Machine and process problems tend to raise red flags.

Broken red lights, right turn on red, and mistaken plate reading all result in phoney charges that would never be cited if an officer were present to ticket the driver instead.

Errors in the process were covered in my caveat # 2 in the preceding post.

These systems have been installed in many places over the past few years. Surely the vendors/authorities have learned from and done something to correct any initial shortcomings in all this time (e.g. right turn on red).

Again, if it can be demonstrated that these things are reasonably error-free, I'd be willing to give them a chance. If I'm one who on occasion runs "orange" lights, I'd definitely stop doing it.

15 posted on 12/17/2004 12:33:32 PM PST by newgeezer (Sarcasm content: 0.0000000%)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: HouTom
As a prosecutor, I'd have a hard time selling the "independence" and "lack of bias" of that witness.

Provided there was an occasional monitoring of the entire process -- from the click of the shutter to the mailing of the citation -- perhaps your argument would be easier, counselor. :-)

16 posted on 12/17/2004 12:38:34 PM PST by newgeezer (Sarcasm content: 0.0000000%)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 13 | View Replies]

To: newgeezer

I don't mind an officer using a camera to present the data as evidence in court, so long as he mans the machine.

Funny thing about taped evidence, when it doesn't agree with the police account, sometimes it is "lost" or the equipment "malfunctioned".


17 posted on 12/17/2004 12:40:35 PM PST by weegee (WE FOUGHT ZOGBYISM November 2, 2004 - 60 Million Voters versus 60 Minutes - BUSH WINS!!!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 15 | View Replies]

To: newgeezer
Here are some recent examples (this year) of failures:

Toll-Free Hassle - When good EZ TAGs go bad (Automated traffic ticket camera failures)

Photo Traffic Light Citations (Posted on 12/02/2004)

I was interested in any FReepers who have had personal experience with photo traffic citations. Especially in CA and for supposedly running a red light. I received a citation in the mail. They claim I ran the red light while making a "right-on-red."

If a camera could pull a trigger (say on someone vandalizing an ATM, possibly trying to rob it), would you trust its judgement?

18 posted on 12/17/2004 12:44:30 PM PST by weegee (WE FOUGHT ZOGBYISM November 2, 2004 - 60 Million Voters versus 60 Minutes - BUSH WINS!!!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 15 | View Replies]

To: newgeezer

Except in california. ;P)


19 posted on 12/17/2004 1:03:12 PM PST by HouTom
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 16 | View Replies]

To: mlbford2

I hope the good cowboys of Texas shoot out every last one of these cameras. I really do.


20 posted on 12/17/2004 1:08:21 PM PST by ohioman
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-2021-28 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson