Robert I seem to have hit a nerve... is it because you back the current never win, always spend, contributing to crime method? Don't worry, you are right, a lot of people want to keep drugs illegal.. like the crack slinging murderers on the streets. Odd that both my govt. and law enforcement agree with street murderers and drug lords alike. Let me take the time to respond if I may. I have left your comments in quotes.
rp"Ah. So your bit about a "non-physically addictive weed whose mild effects include increased appetite and a euphoric feeling" was ... what? A mistake? Not what you really meant?
Here I thought you were just talking about the legalization of harmless little weeds, and making those of us who are against drugs look like uncompromising extremists."rp
I assume you think marijuana is physically addictive by your quotes? Wrong, it can be psychologically addictive like sugar and food however. It is not a matter of being 'against drugs', society would indeed be better if they never existed, but they are here and will ALWAYS be. Accepting this fact, a fact you understand cannot change regardless of money spend and policy... should we not look for alternative methods for dealing with it? Extremism would be if I advocated the injecting of innocents with drugs against their will, I am only offering an alternative. Snatch the pebble from my hand grasshopper.
rp"Lo and behold, enter the real extremist who wants to legalize all drugs. You realize this position puts you among maybe .001% of the population who feel this way?"rp
I think I dealt with the extremist issue above, no need to keep beating a dead dog. Do you really think that I represent only .001% of opinion? I understand it is not the majority opionion currently, but most people have not given it any thought. Since I am not running for office or trying to be necessarily popular, this does not concern me and does not affect my judgement.
rp"Legalize all drugs and the gangs would go away? In your dreams."rp
Tell me Robert, what would the gangs do in ways of making up the vast quantities of cash they had so easily made prior to drugs becoming legal? Is it in your dream where gangs are just a bunch of hooligans hanging out under an overpass waiting to mug an old lady? You know damn well what I am talking about... gun slinging gangstas that would bust a cap in your ass. They have mo' money and use it to buy the finest in illegal weaponry and for controlling and terrorizing entire neighborhoods. I just can't imagine the Crenshaw Crips sustaining their empire on purse money. No sir, this is not a dream but a distinct reality that modern powerful gangs are completely propped up by the smuggling, distribution and selling of drugs. If you don't think so, then it is you who is dreaming on a white cloud where the clouds are beautiful all the time...
rp"If they wouldn't be selling to minors they'd be exporting our now-legal recreational drugs to every nation on the globe. Oh, that wouldn't be allowed? Who's gonna stop them -- the DEA is no more. Oh, you'd keep the DEA? Better quadruple their numbers -- they've got a big job to do."rp
Where does this logic come from? Why would Columbia bother to ship cocaine to the U.S. for distribution (where it would be made legally) when it already has the means to get drugs to Europe etc.? The DEA guys should be converted to border guards.. and ipso facto.. you now have tight border control btw. If you mean however what about those who would ship U.S. made drugs to other countries... let them worry about it.. not our concern, let thier DEA or whatever inspect or planes and shipments if they like. Also make it a fine punishable by a minimum 20 years in prison for the exportation of drugs for those who are caught passively.
"Everyone knows where to get pot or someone who can get it."
rp"True. In every survey, teens say marijuana is easier to get than alcohol.
Yet, teens use alcohol 2:1 over pot. Why is that? Could it be because alcohol is legal (for adults) and therefore has an implied acceptance by society? And you want this for all drugs?"rp
They do these surveys in high school... Do you think kids are going to say they do drugs on a public form in school? Some do, most do not. I took a survey at school in my math class in front of a PE teacher I respected and lied about not smoking cigareetes. I bet if I took a anonymous survey of every divorced father in front of a police station that I would have amazingly high percentages of men who pay their child support regularly and on time.
"100s of billions upon billions of taxpayer dollars spent"
rp"The federal government spends about $11 billion per year on the WOD. Half of that money goes for drug treatment and anti-drug advertising and the other half towards border patrol and overseas drug interdiction."rp
Yeah.. right. How many people are employed by the Federal govt. just to find or fight drugs? How many extra police are needed because of drugs? Don't we send AWACS and special forces to burn down coca plantations? I dunno, I admit I took that number out of the air, but there is sure more than 11 billion if you look at all the related expenses. I would sure appreciate if it someone could find a true number... I will post if I find one. Lots of money that goes to agencies and state and local govt.s gets tied up with "War on Drugs"
"70% of our prisoners up on drug charges.
rp"Geez. Where do you get your numbers? In the United States we have about 2 million people in jail and prison. Of that 2 million, 450,000 are there on drug charges, primarily for dealing drugs. That's 22%, not 70%."rp
From what I see, about 13% on possession alone, total of 30% from selling... now.. what about the murder rate? Why are one in six young black men murdered? Gangsters are not only locked up for drug possession you know... I should have stipulated 'drug related' Drug-related crime can be considered to include criminal offences in breach of drug legislation, crimes committed under the influence of illicit drugs, crimes committed by users to support their drug habit (mainly acquisitive crime and drug dealing) and systemic crimes committed as part of the functioning of illicit markets (fight for territories, bribing of officials, etc.). Except for drug law offences, routinely available data do not provide information on these categories and, when available, they come from ad hoc local studies and are not suitable for extrapolation.
"Tax it and spend taxes on rehab and education"
rp"Let's tax it the way we do cigarettes. Tax it high and drive the product underground, then use the revenue for the general fund."rp
Now Robert, why would we want to do that? That would go against the whole point right? Honestly Robert, the point is it should be taxed and those revenues earmarked for such programs... not to negate the whole idea.
Thank you, and have a nice day.
$s Billions
Year `89 `90 `91 `92 `93 `94 --------------------------------------------------------------------- 1 Stolen 148 154 160 168 176 184 2 Incarceration 73 80 88 96 104 112 3 Lost taxes 41 43 45 47 49 51 4 Construction 20 21 23 25 25 25 5 Federal War 7 10 12 13 20 25 6 Extra Welfare 13 14 15 16 17 18 7 Harrassment 10 11 12 13 14 15 --------------------------------------------------------------------- Totals 312 333 355 378 405 430
Reagan's 8 years: $1.860 Trillion Bush's 4 years: $1.378 Trillion
Notes
Well, there goes that savings, huh?
"If you mean however what about those who would ship U.S. made drugs to other countries... let them worry about it.. not our concern,"
Can they fly over and napalm our poppy fields and our marijuana fields like we currently do to countries that export their drugs to us?
"Also make it a fine punishable by a minimum 20 years in prison for the exportation of drugs ..."
Well, there goes that savings, too.
"From what I see, about 13% on possession alone, total of 30% from selling..."
Where do you "see" those numbers? I have a link to DOJ numbers that show 22% in jail and prison on drug-only convictions.
"Drug-related crime can be considered to include criminal offences in breach of drug legislation, crimes committed under the influence of illicit drugs, crimes committed by users to support their drug habit..."
Whoa, whoa, whoa. Not really honest of you to inflate the numbers by including drug related crime.
Legalize drugs and those related crimes remain. You kill a guy under the influence of PCP and it's still murder if PCP is legal or not -- and you're still going to prison. And ... there goes those savings.
"Honestly Robert, the point is it should be taxed and those revenues earmarked for such programs... not to negate the whole idea."
We were told that the state tax revenue (and the huge court settlements) from cigarettes would go to stop-smoking advertising and clinics. It hasn't. Why would you expect state tax revenue from drugs to be any different?