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"So your saying that Holland's culture is just like ours? Why do you insist on comparing our drug use with drug use of different countries?"

The Dutch are different than us, but really not that much. We're both western nations, predominantly white, predominately of Judeo-Christian upbringing. We dress similarly, listen to a lot of the same music and watch a lot of the same TV shows and movies. We live similar lives. The governments are a little different but the average person on the street isn't much different than the average person on the street here.

I insist on comparing different countries because it makes sense to look at how various laws work in other places to get an idea of how they might work here, or an idea of what we could possibly do to make our system work better. That seems like a perfectly reasonable thing to do.

What always gets me is your utter lack of faith in the American people. What makes you think that we are so much more weak and depraved than our European counterparts that if our marijuana laws were is lax as most of theirs that we would all become hardcore potheads? You have so little faith in your fellow countrymen. I think I'd be seriously depressed if I had as little faith in my fellow man as you.

"Similarly, you continue to make this STUPID comparison between states. The attitude towards drugs in all the states are the same, huh?"

You say the comparisons between states are stupid because you are maintaining an indefensible position and the best thing you can think of to do in that situation is be insulting and play other cheap debating tricks. There is absolutely nothing wrong with comparing the laws and marijuana usage rates in the various states. The fact that marijuana use is about the same in states that have decriminalized as it is in states that have not says a lot. If the marijuana was such an enticing drug that everyone would want to do it and the only thing stopping them was the fear of arrest you would think that instead of having less than 10% overall past month marijuana use in all states whether they have decriminalized or not we'd see use numbers upwards of 25%, 50%, or more in states that have decriminalized. Instead, use rates are about the same in states that have decriminalized and those that haven't. Who is making the stupid argument here?

"I told you before. Give me the usage numbers before and after decriminalization on a state by state basis, then you'll have my attention."

This is classic robertpaulsen. You and I both know that there weren't any state by state numbers being collected back in the late seventies when most of the states decriminalized. SAMHSA didn't start breaking the survey down state by state until 1998. In typical robertpualsen fashion, you want to set the rules of the game up such that your opponent cannot possibly win, because you are incapable of defending your position on the merits. If you can play like this and still be proud of yourself when you look in the mirror, fine, but I don't think anyone else is impressed. Anyone that looks into this with half a brain could see that if decriminalization encourages marijuana use as much as you argue that it does we'd see really high use statistics in states like California that have decriminalized. Instead, use in these states is about the same as in other states.

As for getting your attention, that's never going to happen. You aren't someone concerned with the getting to the truth. All you are concerned with is winning the debate, at whatever cost. This is just a game for you and you play to win even if it takes dishonorable means to get to that end. That's why I always get so frustrated with you.

"that we would all become hardcore potheads?"

Not all. With marijuana legalization, I'd say we'd go from 6% to 20%, half of them under 21.

In 1979, when marijuana was illegal, we were over 13%. So I think 20% is a conservative figure under legalization. Maybe 25%.

And for what? What do we, society, get in return? Nada (that's Spanish for bupkis).

Actually, what we'll get is, "If marijuana, why not peyote? Nitrous? Shrooms? LSD? Ecstasy? GHB? Ketamine?

Not that you care. Hell, you probably agree. So, this isn't about marijuana at all, is it?

I"m just not interested in opening up a Pandora's box for no reason. Even with a good reason or two I'd be reluctant. But this is a no brainer.