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Asa Hutchinson, an official in the Department of Homeland Security, recently cut down a Border Patrol initiative to catch illegal aliens. The reason? It was catching too many illegal aliens.

Agreed. But don't bet on Asa as bringing any answers to the table.

THE ORAL DEPOSITION OF WILLIAM C. DUNCAN, a witness produced at the request of the Attorney General's Office, taken in the above styled and numbered cause on the 21st day of June, 1991, before Jeff Bennett, C.C.R., Certificate ~19, of BUSHMAN COURT REPORTING, INC., Notary Public in and for White County, Arkansas at the Office of the Attorney General, 323 Center Street, Little Rock, Arkansas at 11:40 p.m.
3 Q. Would you state your name, age, and address, please?
4 A. William C. Duncan, age forty-four, 513 Pine Bluff Street,
5 Malvern, Arkansas.
6 Q. Mr. Duncan, briefly would you tell us your educational
7 background, for the benefit of those who might read your
8 testimony?
9 A. I graduated from the University of Arkansas at
10 Fayetteville, December 1983, BS/BA marketing.
11 Q. And what was your first- job that you received after having
12 graduated from college?
13 A. Special agent with the U.S. Treasury Department,
14 Intelligence Division.
15 Q. Did you receive any special training with the Treasury
16 Department?
17 A. Yes, I did. A variety of Criminal Investigation Division
18 training and Internal Revenue Service training.
19 Q. You were a criminal investigator for the U.S. Treasury
20 Department?
21 A. Yes, perpetually from December of '73 through June 16,
22 1989.
23 Q. And as a criminal investigator for the Treasury Department,
24 did you have occasion to investigate matters surrounding
25 activities in Mena, Arkansas?
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1 A. Yes, I did.
2 Q. And were you assigned to Arkansas for that purpose?
3 A. I was already stationed in Arkansas at the Fayetteville,
4 Arkansas post of duty when I became involved in those
5 investigations
6 Q. Would you describe the nature of your instructions and the
7 manner in which you carried out those instructions as they
8 relate to activities surrounding the Mena Airport matter?
9 A. I was assigned to investigate allegations of money
10 laundering in connection with the Barry Seal organization, which
11 was based at the Mena, Arkansas airport.
12 Q. And can you -- how long a duration were you involved in
13 this investigation?
14 A. I received the first information about Mena and illegal
15 activities at the Mena Airport in April of 1983, in a meeting in
16 the U.S. Attorney's Office, Fort Smith, Arkansas. Asa
17 Hutchinson was the U.S. Attorney then. Also present at that
18 meeting was Drug Enforcement Administration Agent Jim Stepp,
19 S-T-E-P-P.
20 Q. Did you discover what you believed to be money laundering?
21 A. Yes, I did.
22 Q. Who was the object of your investigation, and what
23 institution?
24 A. Rich Mountain Aviation, Incorporated based at the Mena
25 Airport. Barry Seal was not actually a target. We had targeted
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1 the employees and cohorts of his which operated out of the Mena
2 Airport, including Freddie Lee Hampton, Joe Evans, Rudy Dale
3 Furr, and there was a banker that was also involved in
4 allegations of the money laundering, his name was Gary Gardner,
5 vice-President at Union Bank of Mena
6 Q. Now, all these persons that you mentioned, were they
7 residents in and around Mena, Arkansas?
8 A. Yes, they were.
9 Q. What did you do with the evidence of money laundering that
10 you gathered from your investigation?
11 A. Presented it to the United States Attorney's Office,
12 Western Judicial District, Fort Smith, Arkansas.
13 Q. And what were your recommendations to the U.S. Attorney?
14 A. That those individuals and corporation -- the corporation
15 be prosecuted for violations of the money laundering statutes,
16 also there were some perjury recommendations and some conspiracy
17 recommendations.
18 Q. Did you present to the U. S. Attorney a list of prospective
19 witnesses to be called?
20 A. Yes, I did.
21 Q. For a grand jury?
22 A. Yes.
23 Q. And do you have the names of those witnesses?
24 A. There were a variety of witnesses. There were some 20
25 witnesses. He called three witnesses. The witnesses including

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1 -- included the law enforcement personnel who had participated
2 in the investigations, Barry Seal, members of his organization,
3 people who were involved in the money laundering, and various
4 financial institution officers who had knowledge.
5 Q. Mr. Duncan, the money laundering to which you refer, did
6 that arise out of an alleged drug trafficking operation managed
7 from the Mena, Arkansas airport?
8 A. It did.
9 Q. And it has been alleged that the Central Intelligence
10 Agency had some role in that operation. Is that the same
11 operation that you investigated?
12 A. Yes.
13 bQ. And when you submitted the witnesses, the names of the
14 prospective witnesses to the U. S. Attorney in Arkansas, are you
15 referring to Mr. -- what was the name of the U. S. Attorney?
16 A. Asa Hutchinson. 17 Q. Asa Hutchinson. And what was his reaction to your
18 recommendations?
19 A. It had been my experience, from my history of working with
20 Mr. Hutchinson, that all I had to do is ask for subpoenas for
21 any witness and he would provide the subpoenas and subpoena them
22 to a grand jury. His reaction in this case was to subpoena only
23 three of the 20 to the grand jury.
24 Q. Now, of the three witnesses, who were -- what was the
25 nature of the evidence that would have been elicited from those

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1 witnesses?
2 A. Direct evidence in the money laundering.
3 Q. And did those witnesses testify for the grand jury?
4 A. yes, they did.
5 Q. Were you present at the time of the grand jury?
6 A. No, I was not.
7 Q. You were not?
8 A. I was in the witness room, but I was not in the grand jury.
9 Q. I see. What was the result of the testimony given by the
10 three witnesses to the grand jury?
11 A. As two of the witnesses exited, one was a secretary who had
12 received instructions from Hampton, Evans, and I think on some
13 occasions had discussed with Barry Seal, the methodology. She
14 was furious when she exited the grand jury, was very upset,
15 indicated to me that she had not been allowed to furnish her
16evidence to the grand jury.
17 Q. Which witness was this?
18 A. Kathy Corrigan Gann.
19 Q. Kathy Corrigan Gann. Do you know her address?
20 A. She is in Mena, Arkansas.
21 Q. Mena, Arkansas. Now, she was a witness?
22 A. She was the secretary for Rich Mountain Aviation, who
23 participated in the money laundering operation upon the
24 instructions of Hampton, Evans.
25 Q. You talked to her about her evidence given to the grand

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1 jury?
2 A. Yes. I had taken two sworn statements, recorded sworn
3 statements prior to the grand jury, and those transcripts were
4 furnished to the U. S. Attorney.
5 Q. And what did she say about the evidence that she was
6 allowed to give the grand jury as it might have been different
7 from the evidence that you wanted her to give to the grand jury?
8 A. She basically said that "she was allowed to give her name,
9 address, position, and not much else.
10 Q. Mr. Duncan, are you saying that the prospective witness was
11 not permitted in your judgment to give evidence of the money
12 laundering to the grand jury?
13 A. That's what this witmess told me.
14 Q. And there were two other witnesses, I believe you made
15 reference to, did you talk with them?
16 A.I talked to another one, his name was Jim Nugent, who was a
17 Vice-president at Union Bank of Mena, who had conducted a search
18 of their records and provided a significant amount of evidence
19 relating to the money laundering transactions. He was also
20 furious that he was not allowed to provide the evidence that he
21 wanted to provide to the grand jury.
22 Q. And was there a third witness?
23 A. There was a third witness, I don't recall her name
24 off-hand. She was an officer at one of the financial
25 institutions in Mena, and she did not complain to me.

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1 Q. She did not complain?
2 A. No.
3 Q. What was the result of the grand jury inquiry into the
4 money laundering investigation which you had conducted?
5 A. There were never any money laundering indictments.
6 Q. There was no indictment?
7 A. No.
8 Q. Did you have occasion to talk to any of the jurors that
9 were impaneled on the grand jury that heard the evidence?
10 A. At a later date, I came in contact with the deputy foreman
11 of the grand jury, who had previously given testimony to an
12 investigator for the House Judiciary Subcommittee on Crime,
13 concerning her frustrations as the deputy foreman of the grand
14 jury.
15 Q. Do you remember her name?
16 A. P. J. Pitts.
17 Q. Do you know her address?
18 A. She's in Mena. I don't have her current address.
19 Q. And could you relate to us any other conversation you might
20 have had with her concerning her appearance before the grand
21 jury?
22 A. Well, she was perpetually involved in the grand jury as it
23 heard evidence concerning the Barry Seal matter, and she related
24 to me the frustrations of herself and the entire grand jury
25 because they were not allowed to hear of money laundering...

-more- IRS investigator Bill Duncan testimony in re Asa Hutchinson