Russia tied to Iraq's missing arms (10/28/04)

The Gertz File ^ | October 28, 2004 | Bill Gertz

[Mars55]

Russian special forces troops moved many of Saddam Hussein's weapons and related goods out of Iraq and into Syria in the weeks before the March 2003 U.S. military operation, The Washington Times has learned. John A. Shaw, the deputy undersecretary of defense for international technology security, said in an interview that he believes the Russian troops, working with Iraqi intelligence, "almost certainly" removed the high-explosive material that went missing from the Al-Qaqaa facility, south of Baghdad.

[Mars55]

Where, oh, where are the WMD? Search no further. But where do we go from here? What shall be done about Syria? And Iran? Russia? It seems that the Russians have been adept at putting a rope around their own necks (what they used to claim that they would do to us capitalists). Now they are paying the price with terrorists attacks and mass murder in their own back yard. They have tried to cover their tracks, but they are there. Play with the Devil, and the Devil comes for your soul. Let's do our best to get the news to John Kerry and the DNC. Meanwhile, the weapons will be a potential menace to the world for some time to come. The USA still has a lot of showdowns coming down the road. Brace yourself.

[elfman2]

Should abuses of “breaking news” like this (6 week old dated stories) cancel accounts?

[tiamat]

This explains much if true.

[EagleUSA]

Ha! Oh, sweet justice. Bush's detractors (you know who) said no WMD, while people like me were chanting about the midnight trains to Syria loaded with weapons, after the disgusting U.N. figured out Bush was not kidding....

Who is kidding who? Weapons were there, and not only is Russia complicit, but add in France as well. They were all running either people or weapons across the border, with their finger prints all over them.

I said it was true, and still say it is true, as many others did. I still feel the ultimate hard evidence will eventually surface...

[Renfield]

DEBKA reported this 18 months ago. Talk about old news.

[conshack]

These intelligence reports have been published for months now, yet it has been "determined" that there were no WMD's in Iraq. How can this be.
And you are correct, we need to brace ourselves for the next stage in this conflict. IMHO, it's going to be Iran first, then Syria. Been saying it all along.

[SevenMinusOne]

Come on - While Saddam was certainly a threat and while GWB did exactly the right thing by removing Saddam from power....the notion that Saddam had a large WMD program is simply untrue - (or that he had large stock-piles) -

The fact is Saddam was a threat because he had the "capabilities" to restart a WMD type program, because he had ill-intent for much of the Middle East and especially the United States, because he was a State sponsor of terrorism.....(all these reasons are why he needed to be removed) -

However, the notion that the Russia's came in and moved all these WMD's out of Iraq (and also cleaned up all the evidence within weeks of our invasion) is simply silly.

It makes for good reading and perhaps a good novel.....but it doesn't pass the reality test -

Nor does GWB "need" the WMD equation for what America is doing to make it right - What we are doing is right! - The World is better off and will be much better off because of freedom and self-worth that is coming to the region of the World that for far to long as been denied both.

[EagleUSA]

....the notion that Saddam had a large WMD program is simply untrue - (or that he had large stock-piles) -
======
I would not bet anyone's life on that. And the word "large" is meaningless, when you consider the amount of bio-agent needed to wipe out a whole city or how much gas it takes to kill thousands of Kurds -- we could ask SH that question though...it is possible that he did not have stock piles, but also possible that he did and they are in Syria...I would not be so narrow-minded about the facts of what has gone before us, and what might be...

[SevenMinusOne]

I would not be so narrow-minded about the facts of what has gone before us, and what might be...

While I agree completely about the meaningless reality of the term "large" (with regard to WMD) - The point I was suggesting was that there isn't even any "small" amounts of types of WMD we expected to be there -

Lastly, It is not being narrow-minded about the facts - The facts are we have had the best special op's teams searching Iraq and interviewing thousands in Iraq for more than a year - (nothing has turned up.....nothing) -

GWB and Rumsfeld are men of class and honesty - both have admitted this (and I respect them because of it) - These are not men that mix words or play word associated games - They mean what the say (and the fact is, the types and volumes of WMD that we expected to be in Iraq aren't there...and don't appear to have been there) -

Nonetheless we did what we had to do - we had to verify! - and because freedom and self-worth are now coming to Iraq and Afghanistan.......the World is much better off....and America is certainly safer!

[EagleUSA]

The facts are we have had the best special op's teams searching Iraq and interviewing thousands in Iraq for more than a year - (nothing has turned up.....nothing) -
=======
Well, I agree nothing has turned up, especially in Iraq. But of course, we can't search Syria, which might hold some very interesting answers - one way or another. In many cases, leaders have to make decisions based on best data --- and with a unanimous opinion amongst Russia, Britain, and the USA, about WMD in Iraq, that was our best shot. I have no regrets about the invasion of Iraq and what the ultimate outcome will be --- but I do have problems, as most do, with an intel system that has been so badly neglected and dismantled (thank you Clinton) that we had to go to war based on a weak organization's output. That is the tragedy and hopefully Washington has learned that it has to be fixed. Since the reality and sad lessons learned of 9/11 are boldly apparent, the USA cannot exist without top quality intel and money should be no object, and they had better keep politics out of the way. This represents a major paradigm shift for Washington which eats, breathes and dumps POLITICS as its life-blood. Sad but true.

[Mars55]

This piece of news is not a "one-shot deal," but a continuing controversy with, perhaps, no end in sight, and implications far into the future. Look beyond your nose.

[elfman2]

"This piece of news is not a "one-shot deal," but a continuing controversy with, perhaps, no end in sight, and implications far into the future. Look beyond your nose."

If each of the 10s of thousands of Free Republic members reposted their favorite month old story with “implications far into the future” into breaking news, that sidebar would be worthless for what it was designed. The administrators had to pull it minutes after you posted it.

Take the time to observe and think before mouthing off nonsense.

[Just mythoughts]

Have you read this?

[SevenMinusOne]

Well, I agree nothing has turned up, especially in Iraq. But of course, we can't search Syria, which might hold some very interesting answers - one way or another. In many cases, leaders have to make decisions based on best data --- and with a unanimous opinion amongst Russia, Britain, and the USA, about WMD in Iraq, that was our best shot. I have no regrets about the invasion of Iraq and what the ultimate outcome will be --- but I do have problems, as most do, with an intel system that has been so badly neglected and dismantled (thank you Clinton) that we had to go to war based on a weak organization's output. That is the tragedy and hopefully Washington has learned that it has to be fixed. Since the reality and sad lessons learned of 9/11 are boldly apparent, the USA cannot exist without top quality intel and money should be no object, and they had better keep politics out of the way. This represents a major paradigm shift for Washington which eats, breathes and dumps POLITICS as its life-blood. Sad but true.

Agree with about all you have said here - Though I still contend the notion that WMD was moved in mass out of Iraq and into Syria.......(by Iraqi's or Russian SOF) and they did this with no evidence left behind.....nor leaving any "live" witnesses left behind is simply not in the realm of reality - (it makes for great Hollywood movies and Clancy Novels.....but it just isn't possible to pull off the kind of operation with leaving nothing behind......simply Mr. Murphy alone would have seen to that).

[EagleUSA]

Though I still contend the notion that WMD was moved in mass out of Iraq and into Syria.......

---

There continues to be a wide-spread perception that biological and chemical weapons occur in "mass" or large quantity. While we jest about train-loads of these materials, or their components, they are not always used in large physical quantity based on the type of chemical or bio-weapon we are dealing with. Quite to the contrary, and that is what again makes them not only easy to conceal and apply as such, but also very easy to move around, from one place to another. And, of course, given the small amounts of bio-weapons, for example, which can cause massive damage to human life, this makes them MUCH EASIER TO HIDE AND TRANSPORT than more traditional weapon of the ABC type.

So as such, I remain very open-minded about the people who were very involved in the Iraq situation, not only SH's Iraq, but Syria, France and Russia...all highly complicit in the machinations of Iraq and its weaponry, of all types.

[SevenMinusOne]

There continues to be a wide-spread perception that biological and chemical weapons occur in "mass" or large quantity. While we jest about train-loads of these materials, or their components, they are not always used in large physical quantity based on the type of chemical or bio-weapon we are dealing with. Quite to the contrary, and that is what again makes them not only easy to conceal and apply as such, but also very easy to move around, from one place to another. And, of course, given the small amounts of bio-weapons, for example, which can cause massive damage to human life, this makes them MUCH EASIER TO HIDE AND TRANSPORT than more traditional weapon of the ABC type. So as such, I remain very open-minded about the people who were very involved in the Iraq situation, not only SH's Iraq, but Syria, France and Russia...all highly complicit in the machinations of Iraq and its weaponry, of all types.

Of course the FINAL product of certain BIO and Chemical WMD can be contained in a very small measure....the process and lab sites for producing SAID WMD....cannot be contained into a simple small area - (not at all) - The legs of producing these types of WMD would certainly show themselves after a period of time (this simply has happened!) - Again, GWB and Rumsfeld (and Cheney) men of integrity, men who don't play with words have said as much -

It is that simple - Others always want to believe the Hollywood type stories...they just aren't so! -

Take for example all the rumors and suggestion that when Saddam was on the run....that he changed his appearance "drastically"....surgical teams did work on him, etc, etc, etc (the same things were said about UBL) -

Yet guess what, when we pulled Saddam out of that rat hole....he looked exactly like Saddam....and when UBL finally put out a tape...he looked just like UBL......The lesson is the real world isn't so jazzed up as many like to speculate.