MANUFACTURING THE NEWS: Why We Don't Have Armor

The Question Fairy ^ | 12/09/04 | Becki Snow

[Final Authority]

I do not think that is true at all, besides, the armor that is used in the HumVees is made of composite materials. These include ceramic fiber, resin matrix, aluminum plate, steel parts, etc.. What we should be asking is why the rate to equip vehicles is going slowly. It seems to me that doing what is needed is better done as fast as possible as delays just cause more casualities.

Some of the armor is no doubt steel plate. Steel is available in all alloys readily and fabrication is no problem as hundreds of factories cut, bend, weld and heat treat steel everyday. This is one of the businesses I have been involved in for years now, so I know what I am saying. I have also been involved in composite manufacturing and design. There might be a unique company that best makes armor for these vehicles but in time of war there is no such thing as proprietary rights. The Government can demand the manufacturing documentation and bid out production to a number of manufacturers. This is how Ford built many airplanes in WWII, that were designed by Boeing.

[GOP_1900AD]

A good approach would be two fold. Firstly, get real about who is on the restricted list in terms of export controls. The PRC need to be in the same category as the DPRK, Cuba and Syria. Yes, it would hurt, we'd have to resource things only made right now in the PRC and contract manufacturers and OEMs with plants in the PRC would need to move to places like Thailand and India. But in the long run, we cannot afford to put our continuity of supply (especially military sub tier raw materials) in the hands of a convergent Confucian-Communist anti Western regime. Geopolitics trump free trade in cases like this.

Secondly, we need to enforce with extreme prejudice the existing export control laws versus the existing lists. Now, a few of you may be thinking, but we are talking about imports, not exports. Well, you have to export a spec in order to get those imports, and export control laws govern that. They also govern any time you open a factory overseas, or even an office overseas. If either the factory or office are within your firewall, export controls apply. Same deal for hiring H1Bs or transfering L1As. Export controls apply not only to exported hard goods but also exported documents, software and other forms of intellectual property including even live face to face meetings with nationals of other countries.

[Willie Green]

I don't buy that there is only one stell fabricating plant in the US.

Not so quick, Rodney.
Don't forget, "steel" is a generic term that covers hundreds, if not thousands, of specialty alloys.
I don't know what the specs are, but you can be pretty darn certain that the "steel" that is used for armor is NOT the same "steel" that is used for cars, trucks, appliances, etc. etc. etc. It is very possible that we ARE down to only one mill that actually produces the exact type of "steel" that is required.

[Paul Ross]

Ping

[ChewedGum]

Another excellent synopsis of the situation can be found at The Politboro Diktat.

Gum

[Poohbah]

Please remove me from your ping list.

[dandelion]

You're correct - there's really no way to know, so I went ahead and added the qualifier (IF what Dick Durbin says is true) to the Original posting at the blog. That clarifies and takes it back to the real question - if this is true, that we are not up to fabricated specialized steel, then the problem is outside the military - and it does not lie with Rumsfeld.

But the Old Media is not looking for "that" answer...

This is a story about two industries, the News Industry AND the Defense Industry. Both are clearly having their problems right now.

[GOP_1900AD]

One other thing. I know taxes put a real burden on both consumers and corporations. I therefore challenge the DoC, DoS and DHS to double, or heck, even triple, the number of successful export control prosecutions over the next year or so, but they cannot increase their own operating costs. They could go a long way toward doing this by setting up an absolutely anonymous means of reporting violations. Think of the increased revenue brought in from the fines. So what if this sounds like a sheriff in a small town at month end. I am all for anything that would reduce lawlessness, take pressure off the tax burden and improve our long term economic and geopolitical prospects. Talk about a win-win!

[ninenot]

It isn't a hopeless prospect to manufacture steel in America. Dozens of "minimills" have sprung up in the shadow of the dead steel giants, because they use modern technology and non-union labor.

You'd best Google NuCor and read the last few statements they've made...they are NOT doing well at all.

Come up with another excuse for the steel problem besides unions (that's irrelevant) and 1955.

Hint: X42 is a traitor for allowing PNTR/MFN for Red China in the first place, and GWB has his head stuck firmly where the sun doesn't shine on the issue of FAIR trade.

[dandelion]

Dude - I love your blog. Thanks for the heads up on the Politburo article - I hadn't seen it yet. Cruising over there now...

[ninenot]

It's NOT "steel fabrication," it's making a particular grade of steel with certain properties that is the problem.

"Steel fabrication" is what the Rock Island Armory is doing with the raw product.

[ninenot]

Because we only have ONE American factory that makes steel for our armor

Read that carefully and see my last post.

[dandelion]

Okay, this is a technical question then: this would be "manufacturing" the steel as opposed to "fabricating" it, correct? Or is there another term?

I just said "make" in the article, because I wasn't sure. Nice simple word, but a little vague...

[TexKat]

On CNN Lou Dobbs now is Congressman Gene Taylor (D-Miss),who just stated that the manufacturing producing company has stated that they are waiting on word from the pentagon. That they could up production by 22% over night.

[ninenot]

The word is "make," correct.

Fabrication is done by thousands (used to be lots more...) metal-benders including those which supply Maytag, GE, etc., etc.

Generally, the automakers bend their own metal for fenders, doors, etc.

[Cold Heat]

I think the terminology is a bit misleading.

The particular steel they refer to was once produced and fabricated in many foundries with associated machine shops.

We have lost all of those, as I used to work for one.

Much of our business was military, but when the military was forced into competitive bidding, the business went to Germany, France, Japan and S. Korea.

They were able to found, fab and finish on ships that were underway.

We now find that these countries where most have a tremendous anti American opinion over the war, no longer have the ability to deliver such items in a timely way, or they cannot accept or complete orders for some unknown reason.

They have proved the fears we had early on, in the 70s and 80s when we said our military was at risk by not supporting U.S. based suppliers of military hardware, even though the cost was higher.

That's about it, as this man sees it.

[optimistically_conservative]

'Hillbilly armor' protects 278th
'No soft-shell vehicles'
Bomb class shows sobering images
By Edward Lee Pitts, Military Affairs

[Paul Ross]

You're not on a ping list. A lot of other lists, no doubt, but not a ping list.

[TexKat]

Mission: Keep troops alive

[Iscool]

I live in a steel town near the Rock Island arsenal. The plant went down here went down because union people who worked at the mill couldn't get over that other people in other countries don't require 60 grand with full benefits a year for a job with no education required.

What does an education have to do with it??? Ever worked in a steel mill??? I didn't think so...You probably couldn't hack it...

So apparently some of you people figure that if someone doesn't have 2 or 3 degrees, that person should be in the 8 dollar per hour bracket, with zero benefits...Sounds like your education doesn't pay what you thought it would...

But like they say, an education may make you more educated, but it shore don't make you any smarter...