MANUFACTURING THE NEWS: Why We Don't Have Armor

The Question Fairy ^ | 12/09/04 | Becki Snow

[Marine_Uncle]

So as you ably pointed out, way back in 1896....
"We renew and emphasize our allegiance to the policy of Protection as the bulwark of American industrial independence and the foundation of American development and prosperity. This true American policy taxes foreign products and encourages home industry; it puts the burden of revenue on foreign goods; it secures the American market for the American producer; it upholds the American standard of wages for the American workingman; it puts the factory by the side of the farm, and makes the American farmer less dependent on foreign demand and prices; it diffuses general thrift and founds the strength of all on the strength of each. In its reasonable application it is just, far and impartial, equally opposed to foreign control and domestic monopoly, to sectional discrimination and individual favoritism."


I guess we all asked. What the hell happened afterward.
The world grew. Many things drastically changed as more nations became industrialized and could compete in various markets globally etc.. Labor in the United States set up the "stacked cards" whether knowingly or not, to drive the cost of manufactured goods and services up. Investment bankers, world wide small investors etc., demanded an ever increased return on their investments. Many things to verbose to list came to past, and I am sure most I have little knowledge as to the whys and hows............so now we approach a point of no return.
Once the American industrial and high tech base is gone or waining to the point, where the world no longer wants to invest in us, and or our goods are to high, and our dollar drops against other other currencies to the point where our GNP etc. go to hell........
we sink further into the sand. Unlike years back there was little competition in so many markets based on our developed industrial base, and total wealth etc.. Now things are changing as you well understand.
And once it is no longer desirable to create/build in the USA, for many reasons, we will continue to loss national wealth, where it used to be large companies that where in the position to manufacture and produce world class products, and sell to the US as well as the rest of the world. In short. Keep the companies here, provide the incentive for them to grow (thereby employing American workers), thereby keeping the national wealth intack.
Now who is to say that lets say a Toyada will keep it's car plant in America? What happens when foreign companies start to remove their plants they invested in this country and start to move them to China?
I understand fully that I have little education in world economics, how countries via for business etc.. I just look at the big picture and see how should we say........the upcoming horror story that just seems to have started some twenty years back or so continues to develop.
I realize the complexities are great. There are no easy answers, and never where.
As more business moves off shore, sells out to foreign companies, just goes out of business for lack of a market share here and abroad, foreign owned business in US, pull out and set up shop in China and the far east etc., we in America will find less opportunities to find work. Now as everything falls apart. More schools of higher learning will no longer be required. After all if we no longer need electrical engineers, chemists, programmers, and the like, all we need are schools that produce artist, musicians, doctors, and lawyers. So more schools will go under. The domino effect occures. Just one closing note. An example.
If we never helped China become a viable AeroSpace giant.
Would we not have had a good chance of continuing to sell them aircraft produced by our US companies? Soon they will not need us for anything. Computers. Hell. Just buy out IBM's PC division. They already have mainframe technology practically given to them by us for the past ten plus years.
Same goes for satelite technology etc.. So now they can charge us to send aloft satellites because they do it cheaper then we can. We are in trouble folks.

[Paul Ross]

I know.

Making his Un-Reaganesque abdication of Reciprocity-Enforcement, and kow-towing to the Xlinton-WTO regime All the more disgraceful.

A curious irony is that his political advisor, Karl Rove, who revered his political idol...William McKinley...completely eschews his idol's firm committment to protectionist policies. They understood then that manufactures had significantly higher economic multiplier effects, and real national value, versus commodities, foodstuffs, and services. And certainly the national security value was deemed paramount. Today, with the cavalier loss of Magnequench etc. it is fairly clear that Donald Rumsfeld might be the only industrial hawk left in the administration...and he has been ordered to salute and back the President's policies. Including having to be buying 50% of our defense hardware from abroad...

[snopercod]

I thought you'd zero in on this:

...there was over an 18 mo lead time to manufacture and deliver the furnaces needed for the production -- and they are not sourced in the US.

[Paul Ross]

We are in trouble folks.

In a word, yes. The problem is that we have disinformation agents, and just plain crazy ideologues, many of them wearing the economic blinders of Cato-school or Von Mises school, who just don't know how the world runs...and follow the defense-content-free analysis of their gurus. Garbage in, garbage out.

They don't understand that we are involved in a 'game' of economic musical chairs, and that the Chinese are stockpiling all the chairs each turn...and by the time we call for a time-out to complain, and demand they return the chairs they are absconding with...we will no longer have any place to sit...and they will simply stop 'playing'. This was never a game to them. This was war, and it's for keeps.

GWB has professed a great deal of respect for Ronald Reagan, and others have opined that in many ways, that he is the real heir of the Reagan revolution. But I look over his policies and administration, and all I can say, is Reagan, Oh Reagan, where are you?

[snopercod]

The information I posted just before yours seems to contradict the information in the thread you linked.

To spell it out, the bottleneck is not with the Humvee makers or modifiers, it's the armor manufacturers, both steel and ceramic (I'm not sure if there are shortages of Kevlar, polyethylene, and aluminum armor).

There is apparently only one company (Clifton) certified to heat treat steel to the Mil Specs. for armor plate, and not enough furnaces in America to produce the ceramic armor.

[Hermann the Cherusker]

They don't understand that we are involved in a 'game' of economic musical chairs, and that the Chinese are stockpiling all the chairs each turn...and by the time we call for a time-out to complain, and demand they return the chairs they are absconding with...we will no longer have any place to sit...and they will simply stop 'playing'. This was never a game to them. This was war, and it's for keeps.

Bush does understand this. That's why we invaded Iraq, which was a Chicom ally under Sodomy Insane, and is of course a major supplier of oil.

[snopercod]

I'm suffering from a lack of interest over here towards #105 and #107. Maybe you two will find them interesting, especially the one about Clifton Steel.

[snopercod]

..oops, meant to bump you, too.

[LibertyRocks]

"You clearly don't have any work related to the steel industry."

Well, perhaps I'm wrong as far as what drove up production costs in the last 3 years. I was under the impression that it was the tariff that assisted in the rise of costs. If it's the other way around then I appreciate your information.

As far as not having business in the steel industry...my husband is a precision/prototype machinist. So, yes I am involved somewhat with the industry on the manufacturing end - it puts food on my table, and clothes on my children's back.

As I said in a previous post I'm not as educated on this issue as I could or should be I suppose. I do appreciate the information in these posts. It's obviously in my best interest to become more educated on the issue of trade as it affects our manufacturing sector.

[Willie Green]

I thought you'd zero in on this:

((((sigh)))) yeah... that too...
but I rant about that all the time...
However, it's been a while since I've foamed at the mouth about the downside of trying to push capacity utilization too high, so I took off in that direction for a change of pace. Increased capacity utilization IS financially desirable and a worthy goal to be competitively productive. BUT (and it's a big but) there are also negative consequences when you're banging your head against capacity limitations. It's one of 'em "damned if you do, damned if you don't" situations. My personal preference is to always have reserve capacity availability to help adress those unforseeable circumstances that always pop up. Needless to say, beancounters tend to have the opposite view. LOL! Such is life!

[MamaLucci]

Finally! It took 68 posts to get to the heart of the matter..............this is just another example of the failed Clinton legacy coming home to roost, and, as usual, the American media is covering up for their hero.

[Ernest_at_the_Beach]

Thanks to roses of sharon

for pointing out this article:

Special Defense Department Briefing on Armored Vehicles ( Text )

[ninenot]

You have the gist of it, not to worry.

PRChina is our enemy. Some think that spreading a bunch of dollars around PRChina will make them love us. Some even were trying to tell us that PRChina is "the largest consumer marketplace in the world."

Well, it has a lot of consumers, but damn few who can buy 2 cars, a couple of refrigerators and stoves, and a second home in Door County--and it will be a good 50 YEARS before the rest get out of hand-to-mouth.

In the meantime, PRChina's gummint has stolen our nuke secrets with the cooperation of X42, stolen patents from most US firms who are stupid enough to make product over there, priced its currency at way-below-market rates and guaranteed it would stay under the value of the USDollar, and is now working very hard to disable US manufacturing capability.

But we can buy their friendship, right?

[Former Proud Canadian]

Okay, so can't MFN status be revoked?

[TexasCajun]

Rush was reading from Stars & Stripes Europe about this. The new Humvees have been arriving and by May there will be something like 12,000 I believe I heard.

[Paul Ross]

But we can buy their friendship, right?

The Cato-ists seem to think so. As you probably already know, back in October 2002, while President Bush was exchanging handshakes and smiles with China's President Jiang Zemin, who claims to loathe terrorism in all its flavors, state-controlled Beijing TV was promoting a video it made that celebrated the WTC attacks. The narrator therein delightedly said with looped video of the plane collisions of the WTC:

"This is the America the whole world has wanted to see," ... "Blood debts have been repaid in blood."

[Ernest_at_the_Beach]

See link at post #172 for some numbers.

[Marine_Uncle]

"GWB has professed a great deal of respect for Ronald Reagan, and others have opined that in many ways, that he is the real heir of the Reagan revolution. But I look over his policies and administration, and all I can say, is Reagan, Oh Reagan, where are you?"

I tremble as how accurate that analysis is. But we must remember, that during Ron's years in office, and before, most of what has come to past, already was on the road. Let us not forget that Regan was a champion of free trade for the most part, and believed in little government control of business etc.. Perhaps Ron would have not been so hasty in giving China most favorable Free trade, based on his inherent feelings on communism etc., but it was going to happen sooner or later. Clinton brought down the hammer on the steel spike that was positioned over our back. So at this point, what does GWB and congress do? Can they tell all the companies the gig is over, no more MFT for China?
Obviously this would put a lot of still owned American business for that even means in todays world, in dire straights. Lay off time folks, sorry we no longer can afford to open new Wal Mart, sorry folks we must drastically cut back in the work force because we are no longer competitive. The seeds where sown many years back. Now we shall all pay the price. I as most of us dearly wish it could be otherwise, but the gig is over.
Who in their right mind would want to invest in a companies that would want to revitalize our steel industry on a big time basis? The cost of putting up new modern plants in any industrial field is daunting to say the least. Mini (Micro)
steel mills are just that. They no longer have the vast infrastrucure (rolling mills, steel convertors etc.) to make steel big time for American needs. If anything the enviromentalist would go nuts! The vast amounts of American who vote, do not understand how all these things are intertwined in a complicated way. Congress and Presidents mostly want to stay in power or get elected for further terms in office, hey where else are they going to find jobs?
Sarcasim. They will sell their mommy or toots out to stay in power by going along with public pressures, created by the MSM often, to dupe people into thinking business is evil, which it obviously can be in some respects, that the environment must come first, that the American worker must get the highest salary possible for the short term. Labor Unions are good, they get us more money, so instead of getting lets say $30K/year, they get $60K/year, with the added and improved health care bargained for.
Net result.
America is going down the tubes faster then many had bargained for. Those for free enterprise. Fine. It made our country great. Now don't complain when your position as an accountant goes to India because your company is moving most of it's resources there. And don't be angry when the only ones left on these shores from your company are those in top executive positions. So you got a degree in electrical engineering. Fine. Best luck to you bubba, hope you can find a job in Singapore. Ahhh so you have a 20 years in bio-chemistry with a post doc. Good for you, but we are closing down shop. Hope the Germans will hire you. Assoo.
You have a undergrad in Aeronautical design. Congrats kido.
But sorry, we are no longer hiring. To much foreign competition in making commerical jets, and next year we are going to close down our plants and design facilities where we used to produced state of the art tactical fighter jets.
We are sending all our defense work over to China. It is the only way we can survive. Shoot kid I need a larger yatch to cruise the south seas in. OK mister, what are your credentials for working at Burger King? You must have at least a master degree or preferably a PHD in either a engineering field, chemistry, or physics. We don't hire your kind anymore. Aaaaah so you used to work as a machinist. Sorry you don't qualify to work at Burger King, may we suggest you see if you can get a job shoveling shit at your local horse stable. Oh there are no horse stables in your runned down ghost city. Sorry bubba. We just can't hire you, to many out of work high tech people waiting in line to flip those greasy, salty fries into the air. But might we also suggest you try your local city hall. Oh they just hire minorities that work for the democratic party aaah. Sorry. Hey here is a loaded gun. Do yourself a favor.
The gig is over.

[carl in alaska]

"...this is just another example of the failed Clinton legacy coming home to roost, and, as usual, the American media is covering up for their hero."

They can run from his failed legacy, but they can't hide it from those who aggressively seek the truth.

[carl in alaska]

Now up to 179 replies. I think you've struck a nerve here.