[AdamSelene235]

The Declaration of Degradation. Our founders fought to protect our God-given rights to life, liberty and the pursuit of smut. We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are weak, base, self-indulgent and vile.

Written by a man who used slaves to finance his lavish lifestyle and either used them for sex or allowed his family members to do so.

[Innisfree]

Don't give me your silly logical fallacies---you sound like a liberal.

[fr_freak]

"The Declaration of Degradation. Our founders fought to protect our God-given rights to life, liberty and the pursuit of smut. We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are weak, base, self-indulgent and vile."

Written by a man who used slaves to finance his lavish lifestyle and either used them for sex or allowed his family members to do so.

You seem to have a great dislike for the Founding Fathers. I understand that it is fairly well documented that Jefferson had a child with one of his slaves, but I have not heard that it was documented that he "used" her for sex (as opposed to actual feelings of affection) or that he handed his slaves out as sex toys.

While I don't believe it to be impossible that he did do these things, I think it is a fallacy to judge past men's characters by standards of today. Slavery was not only legal but common then. Jefferson grew up with slaves. To blame him for slavery as a whole, or some of the accepted behavior toward slaves is silly. Jefferson may well have reached a point in his life where he realized slavery was wrong, but think of the independent thinking and rebellious spirit it would take to arrive at that conclusion in the midst of a society which still promotes slavery.

More importantly, however, one should not dismiss a man's ideas and contributions to humankind based on modern interpretations of past societal values. Jefferson and the other Founding Fathers produced one of the greatest revolutions of political thought ever seen in human history. Even if Jefferson and some others were flawed in some ways, such as weak sexual mores and the like, to dismiss their works and ideas based on your modern interpretation of their historical values is assinine. It would be equivalent to someone in a more puritannical future dismissing every idea you've had because they discover that you once championed the rights of pornographers.

[wita]

That's twice, clueless. You have no more idea than I or anyone else on the dispositions of one of our founding fathers. Time to shut up unless you have something positive and uplifting to add. When you get to the place we are all going, and have an opportunity to ask Mr Jefferson about the rumors and accusations regarding his personal life, what do you think his response is going to be?