Posted on 12/09/2004 9:23:51 AM PST by yonif
NEW DELHI, India - A day after being challenged by a soldier on the Army's failure to provide adequate armor for vehicles used in Iraq, Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld said Thursday he expects the Army to do its best to resolve the problem.
Thousands of miles away, President Bush echoed Rumsfeld's sentiments.
"The concerns expressed are being addressed and that is - we expect our troops to have the best possible equipment," Bush said at the White House. "If I were a soldier overseas wanting to defend my country I'd want to ask the secretary of defense the same question. And that is, 'Are we getting the best we can get us?' And they deserve the best.
"And I have told many families I've met with, we're doing everything we possibly can to protect your loved ones in a mission which is vital and important. And that mission is to spread freedom and peace," Bush said.
Rumsfeld, on a visit to the Indian capital, said it was good that ordinary soldiers are given a chance to express their concerns to the secretary of defense and senior military commanders.
"It's necessary for the Army to hear that, do something about it and see that everyone is treated properly," Rumsfeld said, referring not only to the complaint about insufficient armor but also another soldier's statement about not getting reimbursed for certain expenses in a timely way.
Those complaints, and others, were aired on Wednesday when Rumsfeld held a "town hall" style meeting with about 2,300 soldiers at Camp Buehring in northern Kuwait, a transit camp for troops heading into Iraq.
Spc. Thomas Wilson had asked Rumsfeld, "Why do we soldiers have to dig through local landfills for pieces of scrap metal and compromised ballistic glass to up-armor our vehicles?" Shouts of approval and applause arose from other soldiers who had assembled in an aircraft hangar to see Rumsfeld.
Rumsfeld hesitated and asked Wilson to repeat his question.
"We do not have proper armored vehicles to carry with us north," Wilson, 31, of Nashville, Tenn., concluded after asking again.
"You go to war with the Army you have," Rumsfeld replied, "not the Army you might want or wish to have."
Asked on Thursday about that exchange, the defense secretary said he believed the session in general was "very fine, warm (and) enjoyable." As for Wilson's statement, Rumsfeld said it could be constructive.
"I don't know what the facts are, but somebody is certainly going to sit down with him and find out what he knows that they may not know," Rumsfeld said.
Rumsfeld gave no indication that the soldier would face any kind of disciplinary action for speaking up. Indeed, the defense secretary said he found it healthy for soldiers to feel free to express their views.
He also said military vehicles that go into Iraq without full armor are used only inside U.S. compounds, rather than used on street patrols where they are vulnerable to roadside bombs. And he said those vehicles without full armor are moved into Iraq on transport vehicles rather than being driven.
More broadly, Rumsfeld said people should understand that the military has done all that can reasonably be expected to adjust to changing circumstances in Iraq as the insurgents have refined their tactics.
"That is the way war and insurgencies and combat operate," he said. "You go in, you have an enemy with a brain that does things, and then you make adjustments." He added, "Does everything happen instantaneously as the brain in the enemy sees things and makes changes? No, it doesn't happen instantaneously." But, he said, the Army has adjusted "pretty rapidly" to the evolving tactics of the insurgents, including the need to have more armor on vehicles like the Humvee.
Rumsfeld spoke after meeting Thursday with Indian Defense Minister Shri Pranab Mukherjee. At the Ministry of Defense, Rumsfeld read a brief statement to reporters on U.S.-Indian military cooperation.
"The defense relationship is a strong one and something we intend to see is further knitted together as we go forward in the months and years ahead," he said.
Later he was meeting with Prime Minister Manmohan Singh and then flying back to Washington.
From: [Chattanooga Times Free Press military reporter] Pitts, Lee
Sent: Wednesday, December 8, 2004 4:44 PM
To: [Chattanooga Times Free Press staffers]
Subject: RE: Way to go
I just had one of my best days as a journalist today. As luck would have it, our journey North was delayed just long enough see I could attend a visit today here by Defense Secretary Rumsfeld. I was told yesterday that only soldiers could ask questions so I brought two of them along with me as my escorts. Before hand we worked on questions to ask Rumsfeld about the appalling lack of armor their vehicles going into combat have. While waiting for the VIP, I went and found the Sgt. in charge of the microphone for the question and answer session and made sure he knew to get my guys out of the crowd.
So during the Q&A session, one of my guys was the second person called on. When he asked Rumsfeld why after two years here soldiers are still having to dig through trash bins to find rusted scrap metal and cracked ballistic windows for their Humvees, the place erupted in cheers so loud that Rumsfeld had to ask the guy to repeat his question. Then Rumsfeld answered something about it being "not a lack of desire or money but a logistics/physics problem." He said he recently saw about 8 of the special up-armored Humvees guarding Washington, DC, and he promised that they would no longer be used for that and that he would send them over here. Then he asked a three star general standing behind him, the commander of all ground forces here, to also answer the question. The general said it was a problem he is working on.
The great part was that after the event was over the throng of national media following Rumsfeld- The New York Times, AP, all the major networks -- swarmed to the two soldiers I brought from the unit I am embedded with. Out of the 1,000 or so troops at the event there were only a handful of guys from my unit b/c the rest were too busy prepping for our trip north. The national media asked if they were the guys with the armor problem and then stuck cameras in their faces. The NY Times reporter asked me to email him the stories I had already done on it, but I said he could search for them himself on the Internet and he better not steal any of my lines. I have been trying to get this story out for weeks- as soon as I foud out I would be on an unarmored truck- and my paper published two stories on it. But it felt good to hand it off to the national press. I believe lives are at stake with so many soldiers going across the border riding with scrap metal as protection. It may be to late for the unit I am with, but hopefully not for those who come after.
The press officer in charge of my regiment, the 278th, came up to me afterwords and asked if my story would be positive. I replied that I would write the truth. Then I pointed at the horde of national media pointing cameras and mics at the 278th guys and said he had bigger problems on his hands than the Chattanooga Times Free Press. This is what this job is all about - people need to know. The solider who asked the question said he felt good b/c he took his complaints to the top. When he got back to his unit most of the guys patted him on the back but a few of the officers were upset b/c they thought it would make them look bad. From what I understand this is all over the news back home.
Thanks,
Lee
Humm. Drudge was so excited about this he failed to spellcheck his headline. Good catch, Matt!
Now I'm curious, did this reporter think up this ploy on his own, or was he "set up" too? This was one of kerry's fake talking-points. After voting against every military budget that ever came down the pike, Kerry accused Bush of not properly armoring the vehicles.
I listened to the questions from the concerned national guard/reserve soldier about the armor for his humvee. I don't know of a time when any army had everything they needed for every situation. When we went to VietNam, we trained on M-60s while there were only M-48s in Nam. We also had, initially, all gasoline engine APCs. Talk about a bomb when hit with an RPG! We also had concerns about roadside bombs that can blow an APC in half so we lined the floors with sand bags to protect ourselves. I thought Rumsfeld's answer was appropriate though to those on the ground, nothing but perfect is acceptable and that is understandable.
Why is there a shortage of armor? Because of money? Lack of manufactories? What?
Hardening "soft" vehicles is best done by sandbags.
The Humvees were never designed to be tanks and probably never intended to be able to withstand roadside bombs. They were a replacement for jeeps - remember those jeeps of WWII? They couldn't stop a BB.
As I understand it, the Humvees are rapidly being replaced with those more heavily armored, a lot faster by-the-way, than we had our gas APCs replaced with diesels.
On the other hand, the APCs in Nam could not withstand a direct hit from an RPG on those big flat sides which made good targets. Luck for us Charlie was a poor shot most of the time or crapping his pants because he knew there were 5 more heavily armed APCs and 3 M-48s he would not have time to deal with after he fired his shot.
Do you remember the unit that refused to deliver fuel because they didn't have enough protection for their vehicles? They were replaced by another unit that had similarly protected vehicles. The replacement unit completed the mission uneventfully.
There's never enough armor for every conceivable situation - shit happens, deal with it.
Thanks for the reply.
The WWII vets, Bastogne, et al, know that all too well. None I am aware of refused to fight at Bastogne because of too few bullets, or no shoes against overwhelming odds.
Yes. I've been to Bastogne in the winter. I froze my buns off though I was warmly dressed, dry, well fed and noone was shooting at me. In fact, the people of Bastogne were most courteous. They can pick Americans out of a crowd.
Let's help out. Get the steel from Korea, the electronics from Japan, the computers from China, and the production staff from Mexico. No problem, Rummy.
Let's help out. Get the steel from Korea, the electronics from Japan, the computers from China, and the production staff from Mexico. No problem, Rummy.
The way the media is handling this story is beyond disgraceful.
In other words, they're operating as usual.
The media is milking this story for all it is worth. Rummy's answer that you go to war with what you got is true. It has always been that way and Always will. You can't armour everyone. WWII we had the worse tank of the war in the M4. People on these tanks welded armour and place sand bags and anthing they could get on the front decks to help slow down the AP rounds that the Germans were firing at them. Trucks were not armoured at all, likewise for jeeps. We are building armored vehicles as fast as possible. Armored Humvee produtions has increased tremedously and so has armored five ton truck production. We can only make them so fast and we need to the funds to do it. Think Kerry voting against the 87 million for the troops after he voted for it.
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