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To: TomSmedley; conservlib
RE: "Ottoman sphere of influence" "Fanatic Islam"

What are you talking about? Did you guys read the article. Do you have sources to contradict the article? (I have about 1/4 of the article to go to finish. So far I see only that Turkey is adopting the EU position.) Yes, we are currently not popular among the majority of Turks. There is no way radical Islam will dominate Turkey unless it can defeat the Army.

Modern Turkey was founded in 1923. It's a secular constitutional democratic Republic. Does Germany have a Nazi sphere of influence? Is Germany in danger from fanatic Nazis? Modern Turkey is not a shrunken Ottoman Empire.

I had lots of comments. It was a great article. My experience from living in Ankara for almost a year was that the Turkish people are great people and very proud of their secular constitutional Republic. I was pleased that the author cited the EU influence and did not stray too far into radical Islam and the AKP. The EU says the National Security Council (military) has to butt out. Go figure. Its duty is to protect the secular constitutional Republic from radical Islam. The last time was 1997.

I have opted to just post this.

Any joint operations would also dull Ankara's perception of the strategic threat posed by autonomous Iraqi Kurds. Despite European propaganda to the contrary, Turkey does not discriminate against Kurds as such. Shi'ite Iran discriminates against the predominantly Sunni Kurds on the basis of religion. Syria and Iraq have histories of ethnic discrimination against the Kurds. But, Turkey embraces Kurds so long as they take pride in their Turkish citizenship.[44] At least two of Turkey's ten presidents and more than a few generals and politicians who fought against the PKK were themselves of Kurdish origin.

So we would let our southwest and California become primarily Spanish-speaking? IMO much of Turkey's bad image originated via Soviet propaganda during the Cold War. We've been allies and friends for decades.

One avenue open to U.S. policymakers would be to pressure the two main Iraqi Kurdish parties, Masoud Barzani's Kurdistan Democratic Party (KDP) and Jalal Talabani's Patriotic Union of Kurdistan (PUK) to join forces with the United States and Turkey in the fight against the PKK. With such a step, these parties would signal that, past rhetoric aside, Iraqi Kurds were more interested in Turkey's welfare rather than its demise.

Now you're talking.

7 posted on 12/08/2004 2:02:00 PM PST by WilliamofCarmichael (MSM Fraudcasters are skid marks on journalism's clean shorts.)
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To: WilliamofCarmichael
There is no way radical Islam will dominate Turkey unless it can defeat the Army.

That is either simplistic or misinformed statement. ONLY RADICAL MOSLEMS WEAR HIJAB! If you take a picture on the street of Ankara today, and twenty years ago, you will quickly realize how the Turkish population finally give up their secular policy, and relented to radical Islam (the majority of women wear the hijab now). The pressure from the Muslim media in Iran, and the Arab world to force Muslims to accept fanatical Islam was successful; basically because 1) they had the billions of dollars of funding, 2) they are backed by the governments, 3)the relentless campaign is backed by violent intimidation.

Any one who thinks that fanatic Islam, which is backed by many Muslim governments, and treasuries is going to be defeated by American soldiers is fooling himself. Only ideological campaign that is well orchestrated, and relentlessly prosecuted over DECADES can change the current status in the Muslim world, including Turkey.

For now, WE DON'T WANT TO LET 60MILLION MUSLIM TURKS IN EUROPE. THE EUROPEANS HAVE THEIR HANDS FULL WITH A FEW MILLION MOSLEMS. It would be a disaster to force the European to accept suicide.

8 posted on 12/09/2004 8:09:08 AM PST by conservlib
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To: WilliamofCarmichael

" There is no way radical Islam will dominate Turkey unless it can defeat the Army."

This sentence should read:

"Radical islam will dominate Turkey as soon as it infiltrates the officer corps of the Army."

I give it five years.


15 posted on 12/10/2004 4:04:03 PM PST by hinckley buzzard
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