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WHAT'S WRONG WITH PLAYERS ON STEROIDS?
NY Post ^ | Dec 7, 2004 | JOHN R. LOTT JR. & SONYA D. JONES

Posted on 12/07/2004 8:27:12 AM PST by Tumbleweed_Connection

SO athletes use steroids to perform better. Wall Street traders take Ritalin and everyone uses caffeinated drinks during work to stay alert. News anchors get face lifts and actors take Botox so more people watch them. What's different about athletes?

Yet, this weekend you would have thought that Jason Giambi and Barry Bonds had committed some unspeakable crime. Commentators spoke of them "falsifying the product." Saturday, Sen. John McCain promised hearings and threatened legislation imposing drug-testing standards if professional baseball does not crack down. By Sunday, Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist made a similar call for legislation, and McCain said President Bush would sign such a bill.

Athletes may have more at stake than most of the rest of us. They may go a little farther in competing, but the risks seem pretty mild. This spring a baseball players' union representative, Gene Orza, claimed that steroids are "not worse than cigarettes." With over 4,000 people playing major league baseball over the last decade and claims that 40 or 50 percent of players are using some form of anabolic steroids, what is striking is how rare baseball deaths are and that these are not really related to "performance-enhancing" drugs. Take the last two years:

(Excerpt) Read more at nypost.com ...


TOPICS: News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: mlb
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To: Dane

YEs, but Dane, the key fact you are missing is the relationship.


Back in Aarons day (he started in 54) Relievers were genrally failed starting pitchers, who carried worse ERAs than Starting pitchers, so it was a net PLUS to be facing one.. Over time, SPECIALIZED Relief pitchers came into existence, and that ratio has dramatically reversed....


101 posted on 12/07/2004 11:20:07 AM PST by hobbes1 (Hobbes1TheOmniscient® "I know everything so you don't have to" ;)
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To: hobbes1
YEs, but Dane, the key fact you are missing is the relationship.

Back in Aarons day (he started in 54) Relievers were genrally failed starting pitchers, who carried worse ERAs than Starting pitchers, so it was a net PLUS to be facing one.. Over time, SPECIALIZED Relief pitchers came into existence, and that ratio has dramatically reversed...

And the relationship of Bonds and Giambi using steroids to boost power is null and void to you.

The point being, a batter like Aaron never knew if an "inferior" relief pitcher, could have a good day and relief pitch the game of his life, and this was without steroids, but pure adrenalin from his natural born and God given adrenal glands.

Look I have no problem with steroids in baseball, but be honest about it, and not proclaim that players such as Bonds, are greater players than Ruth or Aaron, without acknowledging the truth that steroids played a part in such players as Bonds performance.

102 posted on 12/07/2004 11:30:59 AM PST by Dane (Trial lawyers are the tapeworms to wealth creating society)
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To: Dane

Not making either allegation.

Just pointing out that you could make an argument that everything deserves an asterisk.

Records are a nice thing, but they are inextricable from the context of their times.

And for those that think this is limited to this choice few, we shouldnt forget that the Anabolic Steroid Control Act (making them a verboten ClassIII substance) was not enacted by the U.S. Government until 1990


103 posted on 12/07/2004 11:36:18 AM PST by hobbes1 (Hobbes1TheOmniscient® "I know everything so you don't have to" ;)
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To: hobbes1
Not making either allegation.

Just pointing out that you could make an argument that everything deserves an asterisk.

Records are a nice thing, but they are inextricable from the context of their times.

And for those that think this is limited to this choice few, we shouldnt forget that the Anabolic Steroid Control Act (making them a verboten ClassIII substance) was not enacted by the U.S. Government until 1990

Uh when did Barry Bonds start to get bigger? It wasn't 1990.

It was 1999.

Like I said I have no problem with baseball players using steroids.

My problem is their and their union's refusal to acknowledge it and besmirch players before them(by thier saying they don't use steroids).

What is so hard about saying that steroids didn't play a part in such players such as Bonds and Giambi's success.

I can surmise why, it's called pride, and pride always goeth before the fall.

104 posted on 12/07/2004 11:45:30 AM PST by Dane (Trial lawyers are the tapeworms to wealth creating society)
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To: Dane
My problem is their and their union's refusal to acknowledge it

I concur 100%

105 posted on 12/07/2004 11:53:14 AM PST by hobbes1 (Hobbes1TheOmniscient® "I know everything so you don't have to" ;)
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To: Trampled by Lambs
Maybe this will help make the point.....


106 posted on 12/07/2004 12:01:01 PM PST by daylate-dollarshort
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To: hobbes1
I concur 100%

Glad you concur, although I don't believe that you would concur that there should be an asterisk by Bond's record when compared to Ruth's or Maris's accomplishments, steroid free.

107 posted on 12/07/2004 12:08:41 PM PST by Dane (Trial lawyers are the tapeworms to wealth creating society)
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To: Tumbleweed_Connection
What's wrong with it is that it makes the sport the exclusive domain of those who are prepared to take pharmaceutical concoctions.

Those who wish to play the sport but are not prepared to fill their bodies with drugs are effectively excluded. Unless of course, they are prepared to play second fiddle to the juiced up supermen who surround them and don't mind getting their butts kicked, week in and week out.

Performance enhancing drugs take sport one further step away from its original purpose.

108 posted on 12/07/2004 12:14:48 PM PST by marshmallow
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To: hiramknight
It's not based on false premise. If all athletes take steroids, they'll have to keep taking them, and more of them, to remain competitive until they're private parts fall off or their hearts explode all for our entertainment. That's stupid.

First you say it isn't, then you turn around invalidate your statement. If steroids are banned by sports, then the sportsmen competing cannot use them in that league. Do you understand that? At all?

There is no further need for government intervention at that point. Period. End of story. Reclassifying steroids and other performance enhancers in the SAME CLASSIFICATION as cocaine is not just ridiculous, but dangerous. Using the DEA's same standard as they do for hemp products, ie; a trace is too much, then every mammal on the planet, particularly us males, are now illegal to own or consume.

It may be stupid, but it is NOT YOUR DECISION. Period. Not in a supposedly FREE country where we are free to suffer the consequences of our actions.

Are you sure you wanna go down that path?

109 posted on 12/07/2004 12:34:31 PM PST by Dead Corpse (Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscript catapultas habebunt.)
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To: daylate-dollarshort
Cemetaries are fiolled with people who died doing stupid things. People end up with brain tumors and enlarged hearts from a variety of things.

So you would join Ralph Nader in saying that the FedGov needs to Nanny us through life? Maybe you would be happier in Canada or France....

110 posted on 12/07/2004 12:38:37 PM PST by Dead Corpse (Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscript catapultas habebunt.)
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To: Tumbleweed_Connection
Gee, what's wrong with them? Well, how about 16-18 year olds juicing on numerous cycles simultaneously while drinking like crazy, doing bad tihngs to their livers, or the football player on anadrol who almost kills his girlfriend because of the hyper agressive behavior caused by the steroid.
111 posted on 12/07/2004 12:44:21 PM PST by Benrand
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To: marshmallow
What's wrong with it is that it makes the sport the exclusive domain of those who are prepared to take pharmaceutical concoctions.

No. Performance enhancers like steroids are ALREADY BANNED by the various leagues. Using them is cheating. Keeping them legal for the general populace does not mean that the leagues need to make them legal as well. You guys just don't frigging get that do you? All you see is one more thing for your political heros to feel good about as they are banning something icky.

How about when they get around to AWB Part 2? Will you still feel so sanguine about them banning stuff outside their Constitutional mandate then?

112 posted on 12/07/2004 12:44:46 PM PST by Dead Corpse (Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscript catapultas habebunt.)
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To: Tumbleweed_Connection
WHAT'S WRONG WITH EVOLUTIONIST-FELON PLAYERS ON STEROIDS?

Good question?

/sarcasm

113 posted on 12/07/2004 12:46:28 PM PST by maestro
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To: maestro

Are you really agreeing so completely with Biden and Feinstein?


114 posted on 12/07/2004 12:52:41 PM PST by Dead Corpse (Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscript catapultas habebunt.)
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To: Tumbleweed_Connection
"SO athletes use steroids to perform better. Wall Street traders take Ritalin and everyone uses caffeinated drinks during work to stay alert. News anchors get face lifts and actors take Botox so more people watch them. What's different about athletes?"

A couple cups of coffee or tea a day isn't going to do great harm to you, in general. A couple hits of steroids a day, however, will cause damage, and that damage can be tremendous.

As to Ritalin and the other stuff you mentioned, I would say those aren't the smartest choices either.

115 posted on 12/07/2004 12:55:56 PM PST by MEGoody (Ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.)
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To: Dead Corpse
Are you really agreeing so completely with Biden and Feinstein?

This is NOT about Tax monies!

116 posted on 12/07/2004 12:57:39 PM PST by maestro
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To: maestro
Biden and Feinstein, along with McCain and a couple others, WROTE the legislation adding prohormones and a a bevy of other "performance enhancers" to the Sched III list.

That has nothing to do with taxes and everything to do with an overreaching government on BOTH SIDES of the isle.

MLB was perfectly capable of handling the situation. We don't need Biden and McCain f*cking things up for everyone. The last thing we need is one more thing our government can throw us in jail for. Especially since their reasoning has more to do with CONTROL and less to do with just governance.

117 posted on 12/07/2004 1:11:04 PM PST by Dead Corpse (Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscript catapultas habebunt.)
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To: Dead Corpse
Biden and Feinstein, along with McCain and a couple others, WROTE the legislation adding prohormones and a a bevy of other "performance enhancers" to the Sched III list. That has nothing to do with taxes and everything to do with an overreaching government on BOTH SIDES of the isle.

This is not about sports...its more....

It will eventually involve stem-cells too, and that will involve tax monies too.

118 posted on 12/07/2004 1:26:17 PM PST by maestro
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To: Tumbleweed_Connection
Saturday, Sen. John McCain promised hearings and threatened legislation imposing drug-testing standards if professional baseball does not crack down

I'm no fan of steroids because they will just screw up your body

But I also think Congress should stay out of this .. because it's a guarantee they will make things worse

119 posted on 12/07/2004 1:30:26 PM PST by Mo1 (Should be called Oil for Fraud and not Oil for Food)
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To: maestro
No taxes for stem cells. Despite Bush already giving those 22 cell line researchers money. No money for major league sports. NO legislation OUTSIDE OF THE CONSTITUTION EVER!!!

Are we on the same wave length yet?

120 posted on 12/07/2004 1:43:06 PM PST by Dead Corpse (Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscript catapultas habebunt.)
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