Posted on 12/02/2004 7:18:24 PM PST by neverdem
In the second ecclesiastical trial in less than a year of a gay Methodist minister, a jury of 13 clergy in eastern Pennsylvania convicted a fellow pastor today of violating church law by living in a lesbian relationship and ordered her defrocked.
The ruling is evidence of the United Methodist Church's efforts this summer to tighten rules banning "self-avowed, practicing homosexuals" from the ministry, a step that gained greater urgency after the jury in a trial in Bothell, Wash., in March cleared another lesbian minister of breaking church law.
At the trial in Pughtown, Pa., the jury voted 12 to 1 against the Rev. Irene Elizabeth Stroud, the associate pastor at Philadelphia's First United Methodist Church of Germantown. It then voted 7 to 6 to remove her from the ministry. The trial lasted for only two days, and Ms. Stroud now has 30 days to file an appeal.
Despite the stiffening of the church's approach to gays, it appears unlikely that such trials will stop soon, several Methodist clergy said. The debate over gays in the clergy is roiling many "mainline" Protestant denominations and threatening some, like the Episcopal Church, with schism. While few Methodists expect their church, the country's third largest, to reach such a point, some said that trials and expulsions of gay clergy could increase as more of them take on the church's edicts.
"In most of the church there is a 'don't ask, don't tell' policy like in the military," said the Rev. George McClain, an instructor in United Methodist Studies at the liberal Union Theological Seminary in New York. "You might have activists now on the right who want to ferret out gay people and those on the other side who are gay but don't want to live a double life anymore."
Ms. Stroud, 34, was the first Methodist minister to be defrocked for her sexual orientation since a New Hampshire ecclesiastical court ruled against the Rev. Rose Mary Denman in 1987. Ms. Stroud came out to her congregation in a sermon more than a year ago and told them that she lived in a committed relationship with her partner, Chris Paige. If in the past, bishops could look the other way in such a case, Mr. McClain said, they are now being compelled to act under stricter rules instituted by the church's highest judicial body.
As a result, Ms. Stroud had said before the trial that she expected to be convicted. The pastor of her church and others, including the prosecutor in the trial, praised her abilities as a minister, news agencies reported. Her congregation had said earlier that if she were defrocked, they would keep her on as a lay pastor to continue her youth ministry work. But she would no longer be able to celebrate baptisms, weddings or communion.
"Of course, I'm disappointed with the verdict, but I do have a very deep sense of peace," Ms. Stroud said in a telephone interview after the verdict was announced. "God is still going to call qualified gay and lesbian people into ministry at our church and other denominations."
That would set the stage for further confrontation. While some like Mr. McClain warn that the church's stance against gay clergy could lead to a hemorrhage of ministers from the denomination, other clergy contend that all ministers must abide by the decision of the church's members, taken at its quadrennial general conferences, to welcome gays to the pews but not the pulpit.
"No matter how gifted a minister someone might be, if that person isn't living within the covenant of the church, he or she isn't helping the church," said the Rev. Maxie Dunnam, chancellor of Asbury Theological Seminary in Wilmore, Ky.
"all ministers must abide by the decision of the church's members, taken at its quadrennial general conferences, to welcome gays to the pews but NOT the pulpit."
Who would have ever thought this would be become a controversial stance??
Well, what do you know - there is a God. Oh sure, you probably already knew that, but 13 UMC clergy just figured it out.
I can't see how any minister of the God that I know can reconcile faith and homosexuality.
"I can't see how any minister of the God that I know can reconcile faith and homosexuality."
Or abortion. The UMC were the proud co-sponsors of the "March for Women's Live" a pro-abortion march in DC.
This the church of the damned.
This is simply wrong.
I am a Methodist elder who is conservative, and I have NEVER seen nor heard of anyone who wants to ferret out gays.
It is an unwanted and impossible task for a church without enlisting the aid of the FBI to create 24/7 videotape of people in hopes of catching and proving some defect.
Our church position is reasonable and extremely clear. We will convict and potentially remove "self-avowed practicing homosexuals" from the ministry. That means that if the person stands and (1) personally claims to be a homosexual, (2) personally affirms that they are practicing, AND (3) personally affirms they have no intention of quitting that behavior, then the church will act.
Interestingly, it is far easier for a bishop to remove a heterosexually adulterous pastor.
: ^ )
"This is the church of the damned"
You're painting with a pretty broad brush there don't you think?? Not every Methodist church is a "church of the damned"---by any stretch. Certainly not my local church.
I'm pleased the UMC actually did the right thing in this case by making the lady step down. You don't think this is a victory??
1st mistake they made was allowing her the position of minister.
1 Timothy 2:12
"But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence."
And why was a woman ordained in the first place?
My comments were targeted at your denomination, not you or your church.
I'll celebrate this victory with you. Praise the Lord!
Now if we can get your denomination to stop marching with the likes of the American Civil Liberties Union, Planned Parenthood of America and the National Organization for Women, in support of abortionist to kill the child of my minor daughter, and the horrific crime of partial birth abortion, then we will have a greater victory for our Lord.
Will you now join me in speaking out against your denomination's support of these unconscionable practices?
Sure--if that's all correct. I wasn't even aware of it.
Many good Christians of the denominations I've cited don't know. That's why I make it a point to post it. You can investigate it yourself here.
http://headlines.agapepress.org/archive/4/afa/232004a.asp#
Freegards, S4T.
"Church of the damned?" It's Hillary Clinton's church, isn't it?
It's also George W. Bush's church. And Dick Cheney's church. And my church. You got a problem with that?
>>It's also George W. Bush's church. And Dick Cheney's church. And my church. You got a problem with that?
<<
Bush is NOT a United Methodist. He's a Southern Methodist living in the north, who detests the liberalism of the UMC churches in the DC area. He's been known to go to AME churches, because they're less liberal! But he does seem to have reached a detente with a UMC church in DC enough to go fairly often.
But you're point is made by this article... The UMC has gone where the ECUSA won't.
This article has another thread:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/1293309/posts?page=1
I noticed. Are there any updates besides a changed title?
President Bush holds membership in his home United Methodist Church in Texas. Southern Methodists are a separate denomination with a separate set of governing bishops.
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