Black Pentecostals oppose GOP

Journal Gazette ^ | 11/27/04 | Woody Baird

[ZGuy]

MEMPHIS, Tenn. – Like other evangelical Christians, leaders of the Church of God in Christ want to limit abortion and bar same-sex marriage.

But that doesn’t mean the predominantly black Pentecostal denomination considers itself part of the “religious right” or supporters of the Republican Party.

“I’ve seen the tone of the religious right,” said G.E. Patterson, the church’s presiding bishop. “It seemingly was born out of the fact that African-Americans were making too many gains.”

Patterson’s church, often referred to simply as COGIC, reports having more than 6 million members across the United States and in 57 countries.

While COGIC agrees with white evangelicals that the Bible is the primary source of spiritual authority, its ideas on government social programs and protecting the rights of minorities differ, Patterson said.

“Every law that has anything to do with leveling the playing field for blacks, they are against it,” he said.

COGIC also disagreed with President Bush on the war in Iraq. The church’s top leaders wrote the president before the war started, urging him to resist sending in the military.

Bush won the support of 78 percent of white evangelicals, who were stirred in part by issues such as opposition to abortion rights and gay marriage.

One COGIC bishop, George McKinney of San Diego, even endorsed Bush for those reasons. But Patterson said those issues alone were not enough to bring COCIC into the Republican camp.

“There’s a lot more to morality than just those two points,” he said.

COGIC’s national headquarters is in Memphis, Tenn., where the church was founded in the early 1900s by Charles Harrison Mason, a son of slaves and a former Baptist preacher.

Today it’s America’s largest Pentecostal denomination, attracting new members with its foot-stomping, hand-clapping worship services.

“Many black churches that are experiencing numerical decline are often seen as either elitist or very rigid in their worship,” said Quinton Dixie, a professor of religious studies at Indiana University-Purdue University Fort Wayne.

“Those that tend to be among the fastest-growing churches are those that lean to a more charismatic worship style.”

COGIC’s founder preached of a “spiritual baptism” in which believers were suddenly awash in a soul-shaking love for Jesus that left them praising him in a divinely inspired language, known as speaking in tongues.

COGIC also has a strong connection to the civil rights struggles of the 1950s and 1960s, which gives it a different perspective from other born-again denominations.

“These are issues that touch them in ways that don’t touch other Pentecostal denominations,” said Edith Blumhofer, a Pentecostal historian at Wheaton College in Wheaton, Ill.

Martin Luther King Jr., who was killed in Memphis in 1968 while helping lead a sanitation workers’ strike, delivered his last sermon, his famous “Mountain Top” address, at Mason Temple, COGIC’s mother church, the night before he was assassinated.

Pentecostal leaders from COGIC and several large white churches in Memphis met in 1994 to bridge the racial divide. While encouraging at first, the new bonds were strained by the 1996 elections, Patterson said, and the unification movement soon fizzled.

“The demands of politics still remained stronger than the demands of brotherhood,” he said.

COGIC’s primary business is praising Jesus, but the parent church also encourages individual congregations to set up community programs for helping the poor and bringing them to Christ.

“They recognize that part of what it means to live as a Christian witness to the world is to place oneself as an advocate for ‘the least of these,’ ”Dixie said. “Not only do you save souls, but you feed the hungry and clothe the naked.

“There aren’t national programs established by the denominational hierarchy.

“They allow the local communities to determine what are the needs in their communities.”

Upward of 60,000 church members attended this year’s convocation, which ended Wednesday. Patterson was chosen for a second four-year-term as presiding bishop, the denomination’s top administrator and spiritual leader.

At the convocation, COGIC members, who call themselves “saints,” renew old friendships, brainstorm on community programs and select the top leaders of the denomination.

For sisters Carrie Austin, 62, and Dorothy Jones, 64, of Omaha, Neb., the annual gathering of saints is a spiritual homecoming.

“It’s just like at home in our own churches. We go there to be blessed, blessed of God, to be saved and sanctified and filled with the Holy Ghost,” Jones said.

Austin said she had no doubt the church will continue to grow and draw more worshippers.

“They know this world is in such turmoil and they’re looking for some truth, so they’re coming over,” she said.

“They know this is a church that’s based on the Bible.”

[connectthedots]

I would say there are at least 8 different 'Church of God' denominations. One of them, the CoG (Cleveland, TN) are 'snake handlers'.

[connectthedots]

Honestly, I had no idea that yours was a different denomination than the COGIC. Thanks for educating me as to my error.

Let's just say I would be far more comfortable in an RPC (which I think is one of the most Calvinist reformed denominations) than a COGIC.

[rave123]

So, are you saying that God has no control over His world and that man's actions will change His plan? (I don't want to twist your words that's why I'm asking).
And what about the widow that married a gang banging husband and had five children by him and he died, does she deserve our help? What about the woman who married a man that died and now is unmarried but has another child. Should we help the legimately fatherless child and starve the other one? Basically what I'm saying is there are a variable of situations that exists and you cannot account for all of them by picking and chosing. Either you give or you don't it's your choice as it is mine. You would have a government out of control if you tried to chose each situation.
And further more, the guy did not mention welfare, you started that conversation. He said community based programs, which usually include such things as computer skills training, instructions on how to take an interview, babysitting assistance while you go on interviews, tutoring for needy children and food and clothing for the homeless. He said that because republicans want to gage this as leveling the playing field they view it as a racist action.
And I say be careful of using stats to justify your case for not giving to someone.

[rave123]

Well, I guess that's where we differ.

[Zechariah11]

Blacks have not forgotten or forgiven this and therefore refuse to subordinate their churches to the political agenda of the white Southern church.

And for the past 50 years the black Baptist churches/Pentecostal churches have abandoned expository Bible teaching which builds character to ride political hobby horses. Look at the trade-off, far more illegitimacy, poverty, and crime than before the Civil Rights movement.

Before you ask, the white Christian church should not be entertaining political causes either. Any church that invites a politician to speak to the congregation is a whore.

[Sam the Sham]

The Black Church has always been more doctrinally conservative than white churches, NEVER having abandoned Bible teaching. Even on the global scale it is African Episcopal churches that hold to Bible principles.

[LexBaird]

Basically what I'm saying is there are a variable of situations that exists and you cannot account for all of them by picking and chosing. Either you give or you don't it's your choice as it is mine. You would have a government out of control if you tried to chose each situation.

Of course you can account by picking and choosing, when the charity comes at the person-to-person level. That is why the government needs to be out of the wholesale charity business.

Then, it is up to us as individuals to aid those who we each feel deserving of our charity. Maybe I'll devote some income to a job training program while you give to a cancer hospice and someone else gives out quarters to winos. Far better that than the government taking our money and distributing it by some policy designed to garner votes in some congress critter's home district.

And further more, the guy did not mention welfare,

"[COGIC] ideas on government social programs and protecting the rights of minorities differ, Patterson said."

What is welfare but govt. social programs?

[Coldwater Creek]

This is the mentality of Memphis Blacks.

[Coldwater Creek]

They always look like they have spent more money than we make in a year on their attire. Lots of very expensive automobiles as well. Every Year they threaten not to come back for their convocation if the city doesn't kiss their butts. They always come back.

[Rytwyng]

So, are you saying that God has no control over His world and that man's actions will change His plan?

I never said or implied such. Quite a non sequitur, actually.

And what about... What about... Should we help the legimately fatherless child and starve the other one?

I repeat: the help given needs to be given cautiously lest irresponsible adults take advantage of it. How exactly you do this is totally dependent on the situation. Government welfare, history has shown, just can't achieve the necessary accountability.

Basically what I'm saying is there are a variable of situations that exists and you cannot account for all of them by picking and chosing.

Individuals and small organizations can. The government can't, or won't, and if they tried, you said it yourself:

You would have a government out of control if you tried to chose each situation.

Yep.

And further more, the guy did not mention welfare, you started that conversation. He said community based programs...

First of all, he DID mention government programs, which includes welfare. It's precisely the GOP's stance against these which provoked his slander regarding our supposed opposition to a "level playing field" -- which, by the way, already exists in every realm except where it counts the most -- individual behavior. Secondly, the tragic irony is that the community based programs they're talking about, are precisely the sort of thing convervatives support! They're acting conservative yet voting liberal. Very strange.

And I say be careful of using stats to justify your case for not giving to someone.

And I say, be careful of misrepresting people's position. Here's the correction: Not giving GOV'T WELFARE to someone. Get that clear. If someone is in need, I have no problem giving to them individually or through an accountable church situation.

[Rytwyng]

The Black Church has always been more doctrinally conservative than white churches, NEVER having abandoned Bible teaching

Huh?

[Zionist Conspirator]

So are the Blue-state libs gonna harp on these ignorant Bible-thumping creationist J*sus freaks or are they gonna get a pass?

Just kidding! We all know the answer to that question!

[Zechariah11]

The Black Church has always been more doctrinally conservative than white churches, NEVER having abandoned Bible teaching. Even on the global scale it is African Episcopal churches that hold to Bible principles.

I am not making an unfavorable comparison to white churches which have done their own selling out -- to popular culture. However, the Civil Rights Movement put politics and social action forward as the guidon from Dr. King on. Simply tragic for those who value the life-changing influence of Scripture!

As far as the AME Church in Los Angeles led by Cecil Murray, what a total joke and a half! It is totally compromised by politics and the Democrat luminaries that parade up to the pulpit time after time. Murray appears one of the biggest egomaniacs in southern Californial.

But as I said, the desertion from expository Bible teaching is cross-racial and cross-generational. You could say that at least there was some trade-off for the blacks, As for the whites, they just got bored with prayer, hymns, and Bible study. They had to try any gimmick to get the parishioners and the money in the coffers.

Jerry Falwell has done an equal share of damage by making conservative politics the "face" of Christianity. His "Moral Majority" eclipsed the church's mandate, the Gospel message, and the teaching of the Word.

[Zionist Conspirator]

Blacks have not forgotten or forgiven this and therefore refuse to subordinate their churches to the political agenda of the white Southern church.

So what then? So they support evolution, abortion, and homosexuality? Is that how they express their independence from the white church?

Abort enough of your children, Bishop Patterson! That'll show whitey!

[Zionist Conspirator]

There are a zillion different "churches of god," pentecostal and non-pentecostal, some some related and some independent. The "church of god" of Anderson IN is one example. There is also a "church of god" headquartered in Cleveland TN (I believe it's pentecostal).

[hosepipe]

[ “Every law that has anything to do with leveling the playing field for blacks, they are against it,” he said. ]

Well slay me in the spirit and fire baptize my soul..
Blacks; he says, don't like to climb...

[Zionist Conspirator]

The Black Church has always been more doctrinally conservative than white churches, NEVER having abandoned Bible teaching. Even on the global scale it is African Episcopal churches that hold to Bible principles.

Why don't the liberals make fun of them and drive them out of their movement then? Poor southern whites used to be Democrats till the self-proclaimed "heirs of Franklin Delano Roosevelt" decided that FDR was planning to legalize sodomy just before his famous last headache. If liberals don't want the votes of poor whites who are government dependents because of their religious conservatism, why do they give a free pass to Fundamentalist Blacks?

[Sam the Sham]

Don't be ridiculous. Black ministers have been in the forefront of the defense of marriage.

Then again, I don't see Orthodox Jews or Catholics rushing to join a white Southern Evangelical Protestant led movement.

[Zionist Conspirator]

Don't be ridiculous. Black ministers have been in the forefront of the defense of marriage.

Then they turn right around and endorse politicians who push the opposite agenda just because they have that d*mn "d" by their name, just like the racist Southern whites who were responsible for the "solid south" for a century.

Then again, I don't see Orthodox Jews or Catholics rushing to join a white Southern Evangelical Protestant led movement.

First, Fundamentalist Blacks and whites are supposed to be co-religionists. Yet they've never acted like it . . . never. And if the fault for most of history has been with the white church it is most definitely with the Black church now. The white churches (at least those with any respectability whatsoever) have given up their historic racism while Blacks have become quasi-allies of every form of depravity in the name of "social justice." For your information, a lot of poor Southern whites are also government dependents, but you don't hear any liberals kissing their butts.

Secondly, Orthodox Jews, Catholics, Eastern Orthodox, and everything else in this country counts on white Protestants to carry the burden on morality so they can concentrate on parochial issues. If the white Fundamentalist Protestants left this country (where they are allegedly such a curse to everyone else) it would turn into a cesspool in about ten minutes.

If white and Black Fundamentalists cannot recognize each other as co-religionists, perhaps it is time they tried a different religion.

[rave123]

That's all I read he asked for: community based programs that help level the playing field. If you call that welfare that's where we differ.
And based on your assumptions, all of the reasons would be supporting irresponsible parents.