Posted on 12/01/2004 6:53:32 AM PST by ZGuy
I would say there are at least 8 different 'Church of God' denominations. One of them, the CoG (Cleveland, TN) are 'snake handlers'.
Let's just say I would be far more comfortable in an RPC (which I think is one of the most Calvinist reformed denominations) than a COGIC.
So, are you saying that God has no control over His world and that man's actions will change His plan? (I don't want to twist your words that's why I'm asking).
And what about the widow that married a gang banging husband and had five children by him and he died, does she deserve our help? What about the woman who married a man that died and now is unmarried but has another child. Should we help the legimately fatherless child and starve the other one? Basically what I'm saying is there are a variable of situations that exists and you cannot account for all of them by picking and chosing. Either you give or you don't it's your choice as it is mine. You would have a government out of control if you tried to chose each situation.
And further more, the guy did not mention welfare, you started that conversation. He said community based programs, which usually include such things as computer skills training, instructions on how to take an interview, babysitting assistance while you go on interviews, tutoring for needy children and food and clothing for the homeless. He said that because republicans want to gage this as leveling the playing field they view it as a racist action.
And I say be careful of using stats to justify your case for not giving to someone.
Well, I guess that's where we differ.
And for the past 50 years the black Baptist churches/Pentecostal churches have abandoned expository Bible teaching which builds character to ride political hobby horses. Look at the trade-off, far more illegitimacy, poverty, and crime than before the Civil Rights movement.
Before you ask, the white Christian church should not be entertaining political causes either. Any church that invites a politician to speak to the congregation is a whore.
The Black Church has always been more doctrinally conservative than white churches, NEVER having abandoned Bible teaching. Even on the global scale it is African Episcopal churches that hold to Bible principles.
Of course you can account by picking and choosing, when the charity comes at the person-to-person level. That is why the government needs to be out of the wholesale charity business.
Then, it is up to us as individuals to aid those who we each feel deserving of our charity. Maybe I'll devote some income to a job training program while you give to a cancer hospice and someone else gives out quarters to winos. Far better that than the government taking our money and distributing it by some policy designed to garner votes in some congress critter's home district.
And further more, the guy did not mention welfare,
"[COGIC] ideas on government social programs and protecting the rights of minorities differ, Patterson said."
What is welfare but govt. social programs?
This is the mentality of Memphis Blacks.
I never said or implied such. Quite a non sequitur, actually.
And what about... What about... Should we help the legimately fatherless child and starve the other one?
I repeat: the help given needs to be given cautiously lest irresponsible adults take advantage of it. How exactly you do this is totally dependent on the situation. Government welfare, history has shown, just can't achieve the necessary accountability.
Basically what I'm saying is there are a variable of situations that exists and you cannot account for all of them by picking and chosing.
Individuals and small organizations can. The government can't, or won't, and if they tried, you said it yourself:
You would have a government out of control if you tried to chose each situation.
Yep.
And further more, the guy did not mention welfare, you started that conversation. He said community based programs...
First of all, he DID mention government programs, which includes welfare. It's precisely the GOP's stance against these which provoked his slander regarding our supposed opposition to a "level playing field" -- which, by the way, already exists in every realm except where it counts the most -- individual behavior. Secondly, the tragic irony is that the community based programs they're talking about, are precisely the sort of thing convervatives support! They're acting conservative yet voting liberal. Very strange.
And I say be careful of using stats to justify your case for not giving to someone.
And I say, be careful of misrepresting people's position. Here's the correction: Not giving GOV'T WELFARE to someone. Get that clear. If someone is in need, I have no problem giving to them individually or through an accountable church situation.
Huh?
Just kidding! We all know the answer to that question!
I am not making an unfavorable comparison to white churches which have done their own selling out -- to popular culture. However, the Civil Rights Movement put politics and social action forward as the guidon from Dr. King on. Simply tragic for those who value the life-changing influence of Scripture!
As far as the AME Church in Los Angeles led by Cecil Murray, what a total joke and a half! It is totally compromised by politics and the Democrat luminaries that parade up to the pulpit time after time. Murray appears one of the biggest egomaniacs in southern Californial.
But as I said, the desertion from expository Bible teaching is cross-racial and cross-generational. You could say that at least there was some trade-off for the blacks, As for the whites, they just got bored with prayer, hymns, and Bible study. They had to try any gimmick to get the parishioners and the money in the coffers.
Jerry Falwell has done an equal share of damage by making conservative politics the "face" of Christianity. His "Moral Majority" eclipsed the church's mandate, the Gospel message, and the teaching of the Word.
So what then? So they support evolution, abortion, and homosexuality? Is that how they express their independence from the white church?
Abort enough of your children, Bishop Patterson! That'll show whitey!
There are a zillion different "churches of god," pentecostal and non-pentecostal, some some related and some independent. The "church of god" of Anderson IN is one example. There is also a "church of god" headquartered in Cleveland TN (I believe it's pentecostal).
Well slay me in the spirit and fire baptize my soul..
Blacks; he says, don't like to climb...
Why don't the liberals make fun of them and drive them out of their movement then? Poor southern whites used to be Democrats till the self-proclaimed "heirs of Franklin Delano Roosevelt" decided that FDR was planning to legalize sodomy just before his famous last headache. If liberals don't want the votes of poor whites who are government dependents because of their religious conservatism, why do they give a free pass to Fundamentalist Blacks?
Don't be ridiculous. Black ministers have been in the forefront of the defense of marriage.
Then again, I don't see Orthodox Jews or Catholics rushing to join a white Southern Evangelical Protestant led movement.
Then they turn right around and endorse politicians who push the opposite agenda just because they have that d*mn "d" by their name, just like the racist Southern whites who were responsible for the "solid south" for a century.
Then again, I don't see Orthodox Jews or Catholics rushing to join a white Southern Evangelical Protestant led movement.
First, Fundamentalist Blacks and whites are supposed to be co-religionists. Yet they've never acted like it . . . never. And if the fault for most of history has been with the white church it is most definitely with the Black church now. The white churches (at least those with any respectability whatsoever) have given up their historic racism while Blacks have become quasi-allies of every form of depravity in the name of "social justice." For your information, a lot of poor Southern whites are also government dependents, but you don't hear any liberals kissing their butts.
Secondly, Orthodox Jews, Catholics, Eastern Orthodox, and everything else in this country counts on white Protestants to carry the burden on morality so they can concentrate on parochial issues. If the white Fundamentalist Protestants left this country (where they are allegedly such a curse to everyone else) it would turn into a cesspool in about ten minutes.
If white and Black Fundamentalists cannot recognize each other as co-religionists, perhaps it is time they tried a different religion.
That's all I read he asked for: community based programs that help level the playing field. If you call that welfare that's where we differ.
And based on your assumptions, all of the reasons would be supporting irresponsible parents.
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