CIA funds chatroom surveillance

c|Net / ZDnet ^ | 11/25/2004 | Declan McCullough

[Nita Nupress]

Thank you. That was quick. I thought it would have been relegated to the dust bin by now.

I went and took a look at it.

It's not as funny 4 years later.

[Lady Jag]

I'd be surprised if someone wasn't monitoring us and all the others.

[concretebob]

This sounds like it may be in violation of CIA charter.
CIA is not a domestic spy agency, and was never intended to be.
Its charter specifically prohibits spying inside US borders.
Of course, the government would never let a little thing like rules get in the way.

[Fiddlstix]

Nowhere near as many people use IRC these days. Not like it was just a few years ago. I believe IRC is dying. A lot of IRC networks/servers are gone now.

[Prime Choice]

This sounds like it may be in violation of CIA charter.

If memory serves, only the NSA is precluded from spying directly on American citizens in these United States. The CIA, on the other hand, is not thus handicapped.

[Prime Choice]

Nowhere near as many people use IRC these days. Not like it was just a few years ago. I believe IRC is dying. A lot of IRC networks/servers are gone now.

I think you're right. I personally believe that instant messaging has taken its place. Fortunately, for the surveillance crowd, very few IM services offer encrypted messaging, and even fewer people use any form of encryption.

[devolve]

Recall just after 911 when all the dems/libs and LBs were all screaming because jetpilotz(a)somehost.com and other email addresses used by the Islamic skyjacker terrorists were not caught by the FBI and CIA?


Either way it's Bush's fault they say......


Just like the "homeless" propaganda I heard on WABC 770am NYC alleging to be "news" about how the "homeless" problem Slick Willie fixed is back and worse than before the Dark Ages in Europe.

I guess it's Bush's fault as they say......



I recall back a bit when a lib asked if I was carrying one of my Colts as I went with her on a side errand to a bank before heading to a museum; just why is it that libs all are against certain things until it involves their personal safety and money and then they expect someone else to carry the burden for them?

[SAJ]

NSA and CIA are indeed so prohibited. However, there is no prohibition at law against NSA/CIA/USwhomever listening in/monitoring citizens of the UK ... and similarly there is no prohibition at law against MI6 listening in/monitoring citizens of the US.

This curious little legal quirk has matured over the years into Echelon and related systems.

[NotJustAnotherPrettyFace]

Right.... and the free-sharing of information. However, this IS one of the things that drives the rest of the Euros crazy ;-).

[NotJustAnotherPrettyFace]

Yeah, oldie but goody.

[NotJustAnotherPrettyFace]

Jam Echelon Day a 'rousing' success, says organiser - Echelon did not grind to a halt, but the protest day helped to raise public awareness about the US-led surveillance system
JAM ECHELON DAY

Echelon Links

• Keywords used by Echelon
• America's Spy in the Sky - background info on Echelon
• Uncle Sam and his 40,000 snoopers - article, more background
• Big Brother is Online - A CyberSociology article
• Report to European Parliament - by Duncan Campbell
• EuroParl Rpt on NSA, Trade, & Crypto Controls - Risks Digest coverage of Euro Parliament report
• Party Line - Civil LIberties article on Echelon
• cryptome.org/ep091498-1.htm - Minutes of Euro Parliament meeting
• The National Security Agency and 4th Amendment Rights-1 - US Senate Hearings
• The National Security Agency and 4th Amendment Rights-2 - US Senate Hearings
• The Echelon System
• fire.net.nz/echelon.htm - An overview and picture of Menwith Hill
• fly.hiwaay.net/~pspoole/echelon.html - An extensive paper on the issue
• Inside America's Secret Court: The Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court
• notes on how far i got into tracking the references
• Paul Wolf's Echelon Links
• Das Ministerium fur Wahrheit - auf Deutsch
• jya.com - Links from John Youngs' excellent site
• Chapter 8: Foreign Bases: a Net Spread Wide
• Somebody's Listening (With Bibliography and Links)
• House Committee to Hold Hearing on Echelon
• OTA Reports on Electronic Surveillance
• Interception Capabilities 2000
• MI6 Directory - a disclosure of MI6 agents' names
• List of MI6 Officers
• Richard Tomlinson's GeoCities Web Site
• Is the MI6 Spy List a True List?
• Uncle Sam and His 40,000 Snoopers
• U.S. Electronic Espionage: A Memoir
• The National Security Agency Established
• Chapter 8: Partners
• Chapter 9: Competition
• Chapter 10 : Abyss
• Appraisal of the Technologies of Political Control
• Chapter 8: Signals Intelligence
• Exchange and Liasion Arrangements
• United States v. United States District Court - 1972 US Supreme Court case
• Medienpolitik - auf Deutsch
• Despatches, BBC News - "Big Brother is watching" (BBC News)
• Natl & Intl Comms Interceptions Networks - From Computer Underground Digest
• Insight On The News - Index
• Did Clinton Bug Conclave for Cash? - From Insight on the News
• Snoops, Sex and Videotape - From Insight on the News
• Snooping on Allies Embarrasses U.S - From Insight on the News
• ECHELON/apec1 - Bugging of the APEC Conference (1)
• ECHELON/apec2 - Bugging of the APEC Conference (2)
• ECHELON/apec3 - Bugging of the APEC Conference (3)
• ECHELON/Overview - overview Document
• "Joined at the Hip" Intelligence Cooperation
• CSE - Communications Security Establishment
• www.disinfo.com/ci/dirty/ci_dirty_projectechelon.html
• DSD - Defense Signals Directorate
• Space Intelligence Technologys Embattled Frontier
• The Global Surveillance System
• U.S. Spy Agency Helped U.S. Companies Win Business Overseas
• 451st Intelligence Squadron
• Company C, Marine Support Battalion
• Nelson, New Zealand: Craig Potton Publishing, 1996
• Chapter 1 1984
• Chapter 2 Hooked up to the spy network: the UKUSA system
• Foreword by David Lange
• Foreword by Jeffrey Richelson
• FAS, Federation of American Scientists - Press Release
• Confronting the New Intelligence Establishment: Lessons from the Colorado Experience
• more info on Fort Meade
• more info on Pine Gap
• Yakima
• Intelligence Resource Program
• www.fas.org/irp/nsa
• Fort Meade
• Federation of American Scientists defines Echelon
• www.fas.org/irp/world/uk/gchq
• NATO
• American Geosynchronous SIGINT Satellites
• MERCURY [Advanced VORTEX]
• EU May Investigate US Global Spy Network
• Wiretaps: Europe is launching a universal wiretap network
• GCHQ - Government Communications Head Quarters
• Watching all over the World
• BT Condemned for Listing Cables to US SIGINT Station
• c't 05/98, S. 82: Lauschangriff auf Telefon, Fax und EMail
• US-Geheimdienst fängt europaweit EMails ab
• Paul Wolf's Echelon Links
• The Independent
• European Study Paints a Chilling Portrait of Technology's Uses
• Wirtschaftsspionage: Deutscher Innenminister unterstützt US-Geheimdienste
• CBC Newsworld Documentary - US Communication Interception
• Cryptome (jya.com) [ Daily news and actual documents, A library of articles]
• Original sources regarding the ECHELON sigint network
• England's ground station Overwiew map
• Spy Station F83
• "NSA Electronic Surveillance: Selected Readings"
• 50 USC Sec. 1801
• Serendipity web site
• A Spy's Story
• The CIA in Australia 1
• The CIA in Australia 2
• The CIA in Australia 3
• The CIA in Australia 4
• The CIA in Australia 5
• www.magnet.ch/serendipity/hermetic/crypto/echelon/echelon.htm
• Peter Meyer
• Company Spies
• Spy Satellites Enter New Dimension
• Un Systeme De Surveillance Mondial
• With Echelon Who Needs Friends /SB
• Pine Gap
• Federation of American Scientists - pictures
• Pine Gap pictures
• NRC Handelsblad - Codenaam Echelon
• NSA - National Security Agency
• USA driver e-spionasje ogsaa i Norge
• European Study Paints a Chilling Portrait of Technologys Uses
• Lawmakers Raise Questions About International Spy Network
• European Union and FBI Launch Global Surveillance System
• Codename: Echelon
• Suddenly There Came a Tapping
• Cooking up a charter for snooping
• Spies like US
• Spy Station F83
• Cracking the Menwith Codes
• The UKUSA Community
• Granite Island Group
• www.webreview.com/96/01/12/features/nsa
• Spying on the Spies
• Hackers Ascend Upper 'Echelon'
• Push for Hearings on ECHELON
• ECHELON: Surveilling Surveillance
• antimedia.net/echelon/
• Listening In
• Echelon: Americas spy in the sky
• FRA
• Press On-Line - News Page
• Kiwis spied on by base -- opponents
• DoD News Briefing, Tuesday, April 21, 1998, Captain Mike Doubleday, DASD (PA)
• Leitrim
• About the NSA
• How the United States Spies on us all
• The Need to Know
• Memex for Defence and Intelligence
• Memex and the Defence Intelligence Community
• Defence and Intelligence Applications
• Memex Contract Demonstrates Paradigm Shift For Intelligence Systems
• Intelligence Newsletter - Memex Software for U.S. Intelligence
• Memex Wins Two Major Intelligence Contracts
• Congress needs to act on encryption legislation
• The coverage area of the various Intelsat satellites
• Inside Americas Secret Court: The Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court
• Cook Faces Quiz on Big Brother Spy Net
• Improved Capabilities for GCSB
• keywords, also called "spookwords"
• Putting NSA under scrutiny
• NSA Accused of Forbidden Phone Taps
• Exposing the Global Surveillence System
• NSA'S BUSINESS PLAN: "GLOBAL ACCESS"
• $pying for Uncle $am -Economic Intelligence

[FreedomCalls]

The idea is that we could "jam" the system and screw with the Feds.

Why would we want to do that? Don't you want them to intercept the Jihadis communications as they are planning a terrorist attack?

Was this prior to 9/11? Maybe your "jamming" contributed to the FBI's failure to maintain surveillance on Atta's gang.

[FreedomCalls]

And even if those messages had to be processed, the very idea ignores the sheer computing processing power that the NSA possesses.

Someone (Bamford?) said that NSA measures their computing power not in number of workstations, but in acres.

[FreedomCalls]

Its charter specifically prohibits spying inside US borders. Of course, the government would never let a little thing like rules get in the way.

Didn't those rules prohibit the CIA from informing the FBI that Mohammed Atta and his gang were in country in August of 2001? Was that good?

[PhilDragoo]

This is identical in ominous tone to the trend set in motion thirty years ago by Victor Marchetti and John D. Marks, The CIA and the Cult of Intelligence, Laurel/Dell, 1974.

Che Guevara was nailed by trapping his satellite call to his mother; OBL was another mother we tracked with technology (Predator/Hellfire), only to have the Clinton Administration fail to make the sale.

But in the larger sense, is there a proven CIA presence here, or more dark hints?

150K? William Byrd spent that every day on a post office with his name on it.

The CIA? Really? Gee, violated their charter? When it is the FBI tasked with the domestic counterterrorist threat?

What would Colleen Rowley say?

Yet the prevailing chorus is to ram through the extant intelligence "reform" which emerged from the Olympian 911 Commission giving the DCI command of all satellites--

OBL and his crew are reduced to using human messengers because they fear electronic monitoring--

Just as the robust law enforcement presence on the net caught Scott Ritter making a date with two minor girls, so it can intercept and prevent darker deeds.

As long as they aren't after misspellers, FR has nothing to fear.

[Prime Choice]

Someone (Bamford?) said that NSA measures their computing power not in number of workstations, but in acres.

Bamford knows his stuff, that's for sure. "The Puzzle Palace" ranks as one of my favorite books. Right up there with "Honorable Treachery."

[PhilDragoo]

I have, and have read, James Bamford, Body of Secrets: Anatomy of the Ultra-Secret National Security Agency, Anchor, 2002.

[tortoise]

The idea is that we could "jam" the system and screw with the Feds.

Only well-meaning twits unfamiliar with the algorithmic technology think you can use keyword spam to mess with the email spying system. It is a far more sophisticated mathematical technology and would require a very sophisticated attack designed by very knowledgeable mathematicians to spam. I've seen no one suggest an Echelon spamming technique yet that would defeat even a primitive implementation of the theory, and this is an area of mathematical theory I am very familiar with.

Fortunately, the terrorists are generally as ignorant as the internet using public in this regard. There is not that many countries that produce large quantities of decent mathematicians, never mind terrorist producing countries. Welcome to the future battlefield...

[Squealer]

The CIA is quietly funding federal research into surveillance of Internet chatrooms as part of an effort to identify possible terrorists, newly released documents reveal.

I sleep soundly every night knowing that the CIA is spying on chatrooms while our Southern border remains wide open.

[Prime Choice]

I sleep soundly every night knowing that the CIA is spying on chatrooms while our Southern border remains wide open.

Touché!