Posted on 11/28/2004 6:19:02 PM PST by LibWhacker
Edited on 11/28/2004 6:23:13 PM PST by Sidebar Moderator. [history]
Of all the revelations that have rocked the Israeli army over the past week, perhaps none disturbed the public so much as the video footage of soldiers forcing a Palestinian man to play his violin.
The incident was not as shocking as the recording of an Israeli officer pumping the body of a 13-year-old girl full of bullets and then saying he would have shot her even if she had been three years old.
Nor was it as nauseating as the pictures in an Israeli newspaper of ultra-orthodox soldiers mocking Palestinian corpses by impaling a man's head on a pole and sticking a cigarette in his mouth.
But the matter of the violin touched on something deeper about the way Israelis see themselves, and their conflict with the Palestinians.
The violinist, Wissam Tayem, was on his way to a music lesson near Nablus when he said an Israeli officer ordered him to "play something sad" while soldiers made fun of him. After several minutes, he was told he could pass.
It may be that the soldiers wanted Mr Tayem to prove he was indeed a musician walking to a lesson because, as a man under 30, he would not normally have been permitted through the checkpoint.
But after the incident was videotaped by Jewish women peace activists, it prompted revulsion among Israelis not normally perturbed about the treatment of Arabs.
The rightwing Army Radio commentator Uri Orbach found the incident disturbingly reminiscent of Jewish musicians forced to provide background music to mass murder. "What about Majdanek?" he asked, referring to the Nazi extermination camp.
The critics were not drawing a parallel between an Israeli roadblock and a Nazi camp. Their concern was that Jewish suffering had been diminished by the humiliation of Mr Tayem.
Yoram Kaniuk, author of a book about a Jewish violinist forced to play for a concentration camp commander, wrote in Yedioth Ahronoth newspaper that the soldiers responsible should be put on trial "not for abusing Arabs but for disgracing the Holocaust".
"Of all the terrible things done at the roadblocks, this story is one which negates the very possibility of the existence of Israel as a Jewish state. If [the military] does not put these soldiers on trial we will have no moral right to speak of ourselves as a state that rose from the Holocaust," he wrote.
"If we allow Jewish soldiers to put an Arab violinist at a roadblock and laugh at him, we have succeeded in arriving at the lowest moral point possible. Our entire existence in this Arab region was justified, and is still justified, by our suffering; by Jewish violinists in the camps."
Others took a broader view by drawing a link between the routine dehumanising treatment of Palestinians at checkpoints, the desecration of dead bodies and what looks very much like the murder of a terrified 13-year-old Palestinian girl by an army officer in Gaza.
Israelis put great store in a belief that their army is "the most moral in the world" because it says it adheres to a code of "the purity of arms". There is rarely much public questioning of the army's routine explanation that Palestinian civilians who have been killed had been "caught in crossfire", or that children are shot because they are used as cover by fighters.
But the public's confidence has been shaken by the revelations of the past week. The audio recording of the shooting of the 13-year-old, Iman al-Hams, prompted much soul searching, although the revulsion appears to be as much at the Israeli officer firing a stream of bullets into her lifeless body as the killing itself. Some soldiers told Israeli papers that their mothers had sought assurances that they did not do that kind of thing.
One Israeli peace group, the Arik Institute, took out large newspaper adverts to plead for "Jewish patriots" to "open your eyes and look around" at the suffering of Palestinians.
The incidents prompted the army to call in all commanders from the rank of lieutenant-colonel to emphasise the importance of maintaining the "purity of arms" code.
The army's critics say the real problem is not the behaviour of soldiers on the ground but the climate of impunity that emanates from the top.
While the officer responsible for killing Iman al-Hams has been charged with relatively minor offences, and the soldiers who forced the violinist to play were ticked off for being "insensitive", the only troops who were swiftly punished for violating regulations last week were some who posed naked in the snow for a photograph. They were dismissed from their unit.
Last week the Israeli human rights group B'Tselem criticised what it described as a "culture of impunity" within the army. The group says at least 1,656 Palestinian non-combatants have been killed during the intifada, including 529 children.
"To date, one soldier has been convicted of causing the death of a Palestinian," it said.
"The combination of rules of engagement that encourage a trigger-happy attitude among soldiers together with the climate of impunity results in a clear and very troubling message about the value the Israeli military places on Palestinian life."
I am not sure I get your point, are you advocating more violence in that region? Would you also maintain this, "only insufficient violence begets violence" if the side you are on turns out the loser?
I asked a hypothetical question in my original post the answer to which is obvious. What is also obvious is that there is a cycle of violence in this conflict. Do you have a practical solution to the problem or are you simply for the killing of however many Palestinians there are? You can deny all you want the existence of people who call themselves Palestinians - I don't know where that gets you especially since our government and the Israeli one claim they are for the creation of a "Palestinian" state.
As for me following the left-wing press, you haven't a clue as to what I follow and I give you, by way of example, my post # 15 in the following thread(note the date and time before you draw some asinine conclusion):
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1289087/posts
Good night!
YOu may want to inquire after the difference between normative and positive observations. I was not advocating anything but making an empirical observation and suggesting that you are factually incorrect: there is no cycle of violence.
I also pointed out to your that the phrases you use are verbatim from the press. What cycle of violence? Tooth for a tooth is a cycle of violence? When did Israel launch a war against Arabs just for revenge? When did it kill Palestinian Arabs just for revenge?
If gangsters shoot in the streets and then in turn are shot by cops --- is that a cycle of violence? Of course not. You should process information you hear Mr. Conservative: your statements are verbatim from the left-wing press.
Would you also maintain this, "only insufficient violence begets violence" if the side you are on turns out the loser? Of course I would. As I said, you should learn the difference between normative and positive statements.
I asked a hypothetical question in my original post the answer to which is obvious. Apparently only to you.
What is also obvious is that there is a cycle of violence in this conflict. There you go again.
Why do you perpetuate falsehoods, Mr. So-called conservative? If you do not know the truth, at least suspend judgement and say nothing.
THere is no cycle of violence. There is no Palestinian people. There are not "insurgence" or "militants." All these are inventions of moral-relativistic left-wing media. Ans you should not be repeating this garbage on a conservative forum --- we hear it enough elsewhere.
Do you have a practical solution to the problem or are you simply for the killing of however many Palestinians there are?
And when did you stop beating your wife?
You can deny all you want the existence of people who call themselves Palestinians
What is your excuse for ignorance in this day an age? You might be curious to learn that, before Israel was formed, Zionists called themselves Palestinians --- just half a century ago. There are Palestinian Arabs, who have never been a people in any sense of that word.
here is no such thing as Palenstians- I don't know where that gets you especially since our government and the Israeli one claim they are for the creation of a "Palestinian" state.
True. It is then that "Palestinian people" will come into existence: they will have a country.
You too have a wonderful night.
Two seconds worth of fiddling would have told as much about the violin and the player as two minutes, if a musician was among them (maybe a musician wasn't, but is being called on the call phone or radio in the photo to listen). Clearly they were not very concerned about the violin going kaboom, because they stood so near. I think they were trying to exact a little oblique poetic justice vis a vis the violinists at the Nazi concentration camps.
I suppose you think that the killing of a 13 year old girl was done as an act of war - maybe she was a suicide bomber, right? And maybe you think that it will go unanswered, that is, a tooth for a tooth does not apply. I drew no moral equivalency when I said, violence begets violence it was a statement of fact (which you are free to dispute and deny - which appears to be your mind set).
Okay, you and the left-wing press can sue me for plagiarism - feel better?
You are terribly misguided (blinded by God knows what) if you think that the answer to my question is not obvious.
I repeat my other question, DO YOU HAVE A PRACTICAL SOLUTION TO THE PROBLEM or do you prefer to keep your head stuck up your a$$?
And exactly how did you arrive at the conclusion that I am a conservative? You haven't got a fricking clue as to my political philosophy so, "Why do you perpetuate falsehoods, Mr. [Normative and Positive]? If you do not know the truth, at least suspend judgement and say nothing."
I still say, good night!
Nice.
As an adult, and someone taking part in a serious discussion, you should know that ultra-ortodox Jews DO NOT SERVE IN THE ARMY. That's what is a real problem for Israel...
Henny Youngman?
This IS one practical solution to the problem, isn't it? And I am afraid the Palis do everything they can this to remain the only possible one.
If the so called palestinian state does emerge in couple of years (though I don't believe it will) it will continue the same suicidal (political and military) practices with the sole result of being destroyed in very short historical term. And again, one of the effects will be, citing you, the killing of however many Palestinians there are.
And Israel wonders why they have a PR problem. Israelis are outraged by IDF soldiers forcing a Palestinian man to play the violin because it reminds them of their holocaust, yet cares not for the horrific murder of a 13 year-old girl. What's wrong with this picture? Israel and many within the Jewish community show once again why they are considered by many to be the most ghastly ethnocentric community in the world.
But I cannot be sure how I would act if I were to see a bus full of kids blown up by a homocide bomber. I just might do the same kinds of things. . .or worse.
Sadly, in the current environment over there, it is possible a thirteen year old girl would be recruited to 'serve' as a homocide bomber.
Ahhh The Horror! The Horror!
Sure, it may be possible that one could become so incensed by actions taken against their community that that person starts acting outside of the law. That is understandable. What is not understandable or acceptable is the fact that the Isreali gov't did not send a message by putting this soldier in prison for a long time. They can express their concerns all they want but until they show the world they are serious the world will continue to condemn Israel.
Agreed.
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