Posted on 11/25/2004 10:48:28 PM PST by eluminate
"Envoys bid to end Ukraine Crisis" http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4044037.stm P.S. good map on bottom showing distribution of support geographicly. Although Polatava and Kirivohrad were very close about 60/40 and 55/45 respectively the rest had margins over 65% in favor of one or the other.
"Donetsk rallies around its man" http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4043601.stm excerpt: "Donetsk makes up 10% of Ukraine's population and provides 20% of GDP."
"Court freezes Ukraine poll result" http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4042979.stm excrept(s): Mr Yushchenko had also ordered the creation of a people's self-defence force - the "Ukrainian Guard".
http://www.ya2004.com.ua/ (yanukovych's campaign) http://www.razom.org.ua/ (yushchenko's campaign)
(Excerpt) Read more at news.bbc.co.uk ...
ahhh those Russian propagandists on FR...
Ukraine has only had democracy, such as it is, for 13 years. I suppose many people don't realize this.
It goes to show that democracy is not easy to establish, it takes many years. The Ukrainian people deserve this right, which should have been part of their history long before this. It was the NYT which ignored the Ukrainian hollocaust in the early thirties, upwards of 20 million people were murdered and starved to death because of communisms dream of collectivism. Something the left likes to ignore while they preach it.
Yuschenko is the peoples choice. We as a free people must support their right to democratic election.
A new election should not be so difficult considering the corruption in this last election. It would save alot of bloodshed.
here is the Russian view:
http://www.mosnews.com/news/2004/11/25/markov.shtml
Russian Political Scientist Blames Polish Conspiracy for Ukraine Election Crisis
Renowned Russian political scientist Sergei Markov told reporters in Moscow on Thursday that the ongoing political crisis in Ukraine was in fact a Polish conspiracy with the aim of imposing Polish patronage over Ukraine and thus raising Polish influence within the European Union.
"Yushchenko's electoral campaign has been developed within the Polish diaspora abroad and its ideological basis was prepared by former U.S. national security adviser Zbigniew Brzezinski and his two sons," the Newsru.com web-site quoted Markov as saying.
Markov said that another ethnic Pole, Andrian Karatnitsky, the head of the U.S. foundation Freedom House, had hired Serbian spin doctors and brought them to Ukraine ahead of the presidential elections. (Another Russian political scientist, Gleb Pavlovsky, said in a Wednesday evening news broadcast on Russia's RTR television channel that Yushchenko's campaign had been prepared by the same specialists who prepared similar campaigns in Serbia and Georgia).
"The arrival of Lech Walesa and Aleksander Kwasniewski as intermediaries in the Ukraine negotiations would become a part of the Tbilisi-Belgrade scenario, as the objective of these intermediaries is not peace, but a passing of power to Yushchenko," Markov said.
He added that the original plan is for Poland to impose its patronage over Ukraine. Polish politicians are seeking more influence within the European Union, currently dominated by France and Germany, and to achieve this, they want to become patrons of the whole of Central and Eastern Europe, the Russian analyst said.
Markov said the United States would benefit from a Yushchenko victory as it would weaken Germany and France on the world arena and also split Ukraine and Russia. He also added that "the majority of the representatives of the Polish diaspora in the United States hate George Bush and want to cause a quarrel between him and Russian President Vladimir Putin".
Markov also said that the main drawback of the plan was that its implementation was possible only on condition of extreme secrecy. He reminded the press that due to historical reasons the Ukrainians are very suspicious of the Poles and such a plan would find widespread disapproval among the majority of Ukrainians
BBC isn't good enough for you? so the only "facts" you except are those that support your cause only. But even a little truth is unwanted?
Mr Yushchenko's supporters say the authorities oversaw massive fraud in Sunday's election - and independent observers have also reported widespread abuses.
Every news story I have seen thus far uses terms like "massive fraud" and "widespread abuses" -- but without giving any particulars.
How much "fraud", what kind of "abuses"? There seem to be only general assertions, but totally without specific allegations or any evidence. At least, none that has been cited.
BINGO! You are figuring it out.
Many, however, insist on ignoring facts and common sense, not to mention other things about the various agendas at play. Things are far from being "cut and dried".
did anyone here see the statement given by Yulia Timoshenko before the election that unless Yuschenko wins the result is fraudulent and will be contested and protested against.
Ping
"Mr Yushchenko's supporters"
Among whom, I seem to remember reading, is George Soros.
Can't tell the players without a scorecard, but is it likely that Soros supported Kerry here and a good guy there?
Can't tell the players without a scorecard, but is it likely that Soros supported Kerry here and a good guy there?
EXACTLY!
Polling precinct number 0000000 and vote for the Pro Putin guy already filled in...
ping
Please list the corruption you claim by either verifying reports from credible sources without a bias of what yo have seen personally. I was there for both elections, and I can tell you there is a second story to tell. Did cheating take place? Yes, from both sides. And just to jump the gun on those who may think I am a Russian appologist, I think Yuschenko is the better leader for Ukraine, mostly on his handling of the economy -- aside from his strange desire to slow private property reform to get the support of a minor socialist candidate.
However, because the West wanted another outcome does not give the U.S. and the EU the right to meddle in internal affairs of a sovereign country such as providing millions in "political training" to one candidate. Now, to top it off, thousands of election observers are speaking in unison that the election "failed to meet interntional standards," whatever that means. Jeez, the Brits claimed Yanukovich supporters used disappearing ink on the ballots! Let the Ukrainians solve this without encouraging them, as Colin Powell did, to continue to mass in Independence Sqaure for another "Rose Revolution." Or am I the only one in the crowd who saw the Georgian flags?
The same happened in the West, albeit to a lesser degree, and you could see that on the CEC's website if it hadn't been taken down.
taking a picture and making a check on it doesn't prove a thing.
everyone mentiones Donetsk turnout which was astronomical but they forget to mention Lviv turnout which was 94 and ivano frankovs which was 92
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