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1 posted on 11/24/2004 3:04:11 PM PST by Lorianne
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To: Lorianne

Very interesting. Thanks.

Thoughtful, and beyond the "it's all about __________" (Israel, USA, Chechnya, Timor, etc.) school of academic mediocrity.

He does jump on the ritual Huntington-bashing westen academics relish in. But then he says "The interesting irony in all this is that the Islamists find themselves in full agreement not only with Huntington’s basic thesis but with its theoretical implications and practical applications as well."

It's not "ironic" except from the position behind the desk and thinking everything must be caused by or reflect thoughts and actions of the West. The "clash of civilizations" predate Huntington and an authentic Koranic interpretation. Huntington's metaphor can be read as not a concoction of Western ideation, but a correct and rational assessment of what the other side, that defines itself an other side, thinks.

The fact that Khatami "called for a dialogue of civilizations instead" is a reaction to his own culture, the "clash of civilizations" ideology of Khomeini himself.


2 posted on 11/24/2004 3:39:32 PM PST by Shermy
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To: Lorianne
Sorry Mr. Al-Azm, but all your nice words mean nothing to me and millions like me.
Your admission to your hidden revelry at the events of 9/11/01 may be an unburdening to you but to me it is a confirmation of exactly how vile you muslim people are.
You think your fellow believers hold a grudge? You ain't seen nuttin' yet!
If you think this is over, think again. Every time I drive my vehicles I remind folks of the horrors of that day. My front plates are a picture of the second plane hitting 2WTC with the words "NEVER FORGET 9-11-01." My state tags read 1 WTC and 2 WTC. Folks where I now live always ask me what they mean and I tell them.
Ya see, I saw it, and not on TV. I heard it. And for weeks after, I smelled it. And I will NEVER forget who did it.
There are many in this country who would want to forgive. I AM NOT ONE OF THEM! And if our leaders should start to succumb to their siren song, I will be out beating the drum to drown them out. I will rally others to address our leadership and put them to the task of obtaining the only peace possible with islam. It's extinction from the face of the planet!
4 posted on 11/24/2004 4:22:04 PM PST by Roccus
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To: Lorianne

Those who dance the dance of Islam may have danced their last.

We infidels--the rest of the human race--will always remember what you have caused to the sake of mankind.

Dance your dance while you can.


5 posted on 11/24/2004 4:53:12 PM PST by jolie560
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To: Lorianne

An interesting, thoughtful essay. I think he may be too quick to declare that the jihads are, essentially, over, however. Nonetheless, this may be one of the more honest assessment of the Arab/Muslim mindset and the fact that they have, collectively, failed to keep up with the times.

Still, there is a fundamental resistance to accept the notion that the problems of the Middle East in general, and of Arabs/Muslims in particular, are the creation of the Arabs/Muslims. They created an isolationist world in which they shunned the advances of the west and discouraged fraternization with outsiders.

Their current expressions of rage and anger at the west is, perhaps, more symptomatic of their own self-loathing for the fact that the world has surpassed their cloistered environment. There was a time in history when Muslims and Arabs were leading traders and historians of the world.

Today, they are backward and desperate to find their place in a world in which they have nothing relevant to offer but oceans of sand and barrels of crude oil. Somehow, the tradeoff doesn't seem to have balanced out the fact that Arabs/Muslims have successfully achieved a level of irrelevance that is symbolized by their self hatred and brutality.

In short, the Arab/Muslim world is a psychiatrist's living lab experiment of "acting out".


6 posted on 11/24/2004 4:59:33 PM PST by DustyMoment (Repeal CFR NOW!!)
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To: Lorianne
Wonderful essay - thanks for posting. This is the sort of thing for which I treasure FR.

A bookmark, and I don't bookmark many.

Only a couple of preliminary thoughts - this takes some digestion. First, the argument "we once had a great civilization, more sophisticated and deserving than this crude new one that is dominant only by brute force" is the argument of every fading empire in the history of Man. I found myself wondering halfway through that paragraph if the speaker were Arabic...or French.

Second, that a civilization such as that of Islam carries weight by sheer force of numbers even if its core ideas are ossifying rapidly. In the sense of a battle of ideas and cultures the author may be right that it isn't much of a contest. In the sense of demography he is not. Beware Europe - you may not be out-thought but you might be out-bred. Ask the Romans.

More later. Have a great Thanksgiving, everyone!

7 posted on 11/24/2004 5:27:51 PM PST by Billthedrill
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To: Lorianne

fantatic - "salvific" and "ontological" in the same article.


8 posted on 11/24/2004 9:10:20 PM PST by wildcatf4f3 (out of the sun)
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