Posted on 11/23/2004 10:54:45 AM PST by eccentric
Why a guest worker program won't work.
We've been told that Mexicans (and others) come across our border because they are seeking jobs. So who is hiring them? and why? Why would an employer hire an illegal alien? Because it's cheap, right? He doesn't have to pay them as much. An employer who hires illegal aliens, which is illegal, is also going to break the laws regarding minimum wage, withholdings, OSHA, etc. This employer can get away with this because people who are breaking the law to live and work in this country are unlikely to report the illegal practices of their employer.
right?
What would a guest worker program do? Make the illegals legal and viola! the employer suddenly has to pay more to hire them.....
oooops! Aren't we right back to where we started? The employer will then look for the cheapest worker he can find---- someone who will agree to work under his illegal employment: someone who is himself illegal.
They should all go into the military.
I was listening to Doug MacIntyre yesterday (KABC radio) and he pretty much said the same thing. He added that, after the now-legal illegals form unions (which they will in a heartbeat), the employers will go back to employing just the plain old illegal illegals. (So now we'll have two subclasses of illegals.)
And so on, and so on, and so on...
I believe a REAL solution for increasing employment is to make it easier for an employer to 1099 employees as independent contractors. Make the individual responsible for paying the income taxes and eliminate the 941-employer-as-taxcollector BS.
It seems to me that sometime back I heard the quote "Send us jobs or we will send you Mexicans". Not sure of the government officials name in Mexico. It would seem we will send them jobs and they will still send us Mexicans. One thing I do know is that we can not maintain our standard of living and take on Mexico's over population problem. It is time to draw a line in the sand.
I've never bought the notion that if illegal Mexicans don't do this work, no one will.. people seem to have forgotten one important historical fact.. before the tidal wave of illegal immigration, white and black people were doing the bulk of the agricultural harvesting jobs. So there's another argument that flies out the window. Another flaw in the argument of the Mexicans coming here to work is that many of them DON'T come to work, they come to garner a free ride or to commit crimes. I've never understood the idea of coming over here illegally if you're an honest person only seeking work. What's the problem with a work visa?
While I agree with the assumption that it will cost some employers more if the Guest Worker program is implemented, I would like to add something to this. One thing it will do is provide labor for jobs that most Americans will not do anymore. This situation does exist. Many Americans simply will not consider any type of job that is considered 'labor'. Some because of the pay, some because of the 'status'. Either way, employers are trying to fill these jobs and cannot fill them legally. I hope if this program is adopted it will be well thought out before and not after it is implemented. It always costs more to go back and fix something than it does to get it right the first time.
ping list, please.
Orange growers had a similar end result with a worker dispute. In the end they unified and paid engineers to come up with an orange picking machine and thus significantly eliminate jobs.
I am surprised that no US based robotics firm has tnot developed tomato, strawberry, or table grape picking machines. They make robots that can cut precise holes in human bones for implanting artificial joints why not this?
Robots could even run 24/7. The corporate nature of modern farming SCREAMS for this solution.
I go into lots of businesses that employ illegals. They pay them regular wages. Perhaps less than what English-speaking Americans would be paid, but well above minimum wage, and the same benefits are offered to them. (The Mexicans don't take them up on the offer of health insurance or 401(k, though, for obvious reasons.)
The reason employers hire them is that these Mexicans work like crazy. They get higher productivity out of Mexicans for the hard, dirty labor jobs. I'm not arguing for this, I'm just relaying what these companies have told me.
Now, officially, the employers don't KNOW they're illegal, because the workers give the employer a fake Social Security number, and the employers don't run background checks. But, they really do know.
The independant contractor solution simply takes the burden off of the employers and put it on the illegals to pay taxes. Something tells me that the illegals won't file their taxes...
IMHO going after the employers for hiring the illegals in the first place would act as a serious deterrent for the mildly-honest employers, the would limit the jobs available and removing the incentive for coming in illegally.
It's nearly impossible to patrol the borders, but when they are working outside in the fields in front of our noses their not that hard to find. Factory workers are harder to find, but not impossible.
Just my 2 cents
Yep, there's that. And the fallacy of expecting those who've demonstrated a unwillingness to respect the law suddenly becoming law abiding. Duh.
I agree that is an issue to consider, however I know I would hire an additional secretary if I did not have the paperwork/expense burden for my office.
Selfish of me? perhaps. Even after withholding taxes, guest workers may still not file. If a guest worker claims 12 dependents at home making their withholding taxes effectivly zero, who is going to confirm it? Nobody.
Why not test this hypothosis by hiring a couple of day laborers hanging out at your local Home Depot?
Be warned, though. Horror stories abound around here from those who tried to hire a 'hard working' day laborer on the cheap.
The solution there is stop fighting the Indians! Why do we still have forts inside the US? Fort Riley? Fort Hood? etc. Move the Army bases to the border and let them do all their training there.
but we can't expect the local communities to live without the federal money input.
stop granting citizenship to babies just because they are born within this countries borders. They are citizens of the same country their parents are.
It is a fact that until such time as we have tamper proof National Identification there is no control. Any program that we come up with will be undermined by those seeking to make a profit. The American tax-payer will be the fool who watches his insurance bill go up because they are unwittingly paying the medical bill of the undocumented worker. We should not have to subsidize the packing and agricultural (among many) industries employees. In Colorado we are forced to educate the children of undocumented field worker in day care programs such as head-start. When are people going to wake up. Cheap labor is not cheap!!!
"One thing it will do is provide labor for jobs that most Americans will not do anymore. This situation does exist. Many Americans simply will not consider any type of job that is considered 'labor'. Some because of the pay, some because of the 'status'. Either way, employers are trying to fill these jobs and cannot fill them legally."
Are you joking? Cannot fill them legally? I think what you mean is: "The employers are not willing to pay enough wages to get Americans to do these jobs."
Of course Americans won't pick fruit at $2 an hour, because you can't pay your rent and feed your family on $2 an hour. Mexicans are able to live on $2 an hour because they live 10 guys to an apartment.
And why is it that these employers can offer such low wages? Because the illegals are willing to work for those low wages. Cut off the flow of illegals, and the agricultural/construction businesses will NOT collapse. The employers will simply have to pay higher wages - and then Americans will do those jobs.
Not to mention saving a lot of strain on the public school systems and hospitals.
At the same time Dubya should persuede Senor Fox to open up his country for American investors so that we can start improving their 3rd world country so people will start staying there and even moving back to Mexico.
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