Duck, Microsoft: Firefox Is Coming To Retail Stores (Linux offering OpenOffice & Firefox together)

TechWeb ^ | November 22, 2004 | TechWeb.com

[Eagle9]

Linux operating-system producer Linspire Inc. has found another way to challenge Microsoft: it's offering its OpenOffice.org product suite and the Mozilla Foundation's Firefox browser in a single package in retail channels.

Linspire, formerly called Lindows, positions its OOoFf package to directly compete with Microsoft Office. The OpenOffice.org product enables users to create spreadsheets, presentations, and documents using files in popular formats, including .doc, .xls and .ppt. The Linspire product also enables users to utilize the PDF format.

"Our goal with OOoFf is to help get OpenOffice.org and Firefox into every possible distribution channel," said Linspire CEO Michael Robertson in a statement Monday. "As users grow comfortable with these high-quality open-source products, it makes the migration to desktop Linux a much more practical transition."

The combo OOoFf consists of an installation CD-ROM, documentation materials, and Flash tutorials. The software is compatible with Windows 98 and higher and Mac OS X 10.2 and higher.

Firefox has been downloaded by more than 10 million users, and the browser has taken some market share from Microsoft's Internet Explorer. The Linspire Linux-based operating system has been designed for desktop and laptop computers, and the firm said the new Firefox- OOoFf package should help spur the growth of its Linux operating system.

[Bush2000]

That's coming in the new release.

So what. You asked what it's lacking *now*. Apparently, that wasn't good enough for you.

It has a macro language much like VBA.

Again, so what. It doesn't round-trip VBA. So it's own macro language is useless.

Give me an example.

Complicated tables.

Oh, come on. This is just silly. I've never heard one person mention Word's grammer checker in a feature they needed...

Now, you're demagoguing. I provided a reasonably important feature that's missing in OO -- and you squeal like a stuck pig.

In what way?

It's utterly limited in scope compared to MS Office.

What exactly does this mean?

Forget it. You don't use MS Office 2003, so you have no concept.

Exactly how much have you used OO?

I forced myself to use it daily for several months. I know it well enough to know that it isn't suitable for many corporate deployments.

[Petronski]

Advanced formatting doesn't convert properly. No grammar checker. The thesaurus is crap. Missing reading layout. No Outlook/PIM alternative. In short, it's the Taiwan rubber-dog-crap version of MS Office.

I agree with all of that except the bit about the grammar checker. Of course, OOorg has no grammar checker that I can find. Then again, the grammar checking in MSOffice is not ready for prime time. I find it to be useless and I pity anyone who is relying on it for good grammar.

As for the rest of your words, the MS thesaurus is very good to excellent, and the outlook PIM is also very good (though I would never actually run it, because it is tied into the risky scheme known as Outlook). OOorg's thesaurus is too broad and unfocused (and unbelieveably NOT present on the context menu), and OOorg has no PIM at all.

[this_ol_patriot]

Love Adblock with 3 entries *doubleclick* */realmedia/ads/* and *fastclick* I already block 90%+ of the ads I used to see.

[goldstategop]

You can do the same with a good Hosts file. It will block every pop up ad domain on the Web.

[goldstategop]

And it still needs a good database counterpart to MS Access. I can't be log into my MySQL database because I keep getting login errors.

[this_ol_patriot]

Yep, http://mvps.org/winhelp2002/hosts.htm , I enjoy setting up blocks and just lock my host.

[antiRepublicrat]

Add http://*.fastclick.net/* to kill even more.

Thanks for that realmedia folder tip. In looking at my list I notice I have that folder in several specific sites blocked, now it's just blocked for all sites.

[goldstategop]

Look it up here - its has boatloads of info on every spyware-related. http://www.spywarewarrior.com/index.html

[antiRepublicrat]

It lacks an enduser database such as Microsoft Access.

OOo 2.0 is about to be released. See what's now in it, including its own database.

It lacks macro support

Actually, it has good macro support, with its scripting framework supporting several languages. It just doesn't copy for Microsoft's VB macro language. The possibility of porting applications (if any) is one consideration in any migration strategy.

Advanced formatting doesn't convert properly.

That's mostly Microsoft's fault for not releasing the entire Office format for compatibility. This is actually a reason to migrate to OOo, because with OOo you know that in the future you won't be locked into anything -- its open XML document format can be converted perfectly to anything else.

Besides, if you want advanced formatting you probably shouldn't be using a word processor, because I'll guarantee you that you're spending too much time getting the advanced formatting to come out right.

No grammar checker.

That may be a problem for some. I never use them.

The thesaurus is crap.

Very true, and that might actually be something that would keep a small percentage of people from moving.

Missing reading layout.

You use that? You're the first person I know who does.

No Outlook/PIM alternative.

Because OOo doesn't cover that. If you want that, download Thunderbird (a better email/news/contact app than Outlook). Unfortunately, a good competing PIM isn't out yet, but it's coming soon in Mozilla Calendar and the "Lightning" project to closely integrate it with Thunderbird. Given Mozilla's track record, I expect it to be very good.

There are OSS PIM projects out there for Windows now, but I don't think any of them are good enough to compete with Outlook.

. In short, it's the Taiwan rubber-dog-crap version of MS Office.

Word was the rubber-dog-crap version of WordPerfect (interestingly, in early days popular on the Mac but not on the PC). Powerpoint is a Mac application that Microsoft bought. Excel is a copy of Lotus 1-2-3 (in turn a copy of VisiCalc), and only won because of the difficulties Microsoft created for everyone but them when porting to the new Windows (like with WordPerfect).

[antiRepublicrat]

And it still needs a good database counterpart to MS Access. I can't be log into my MySQL database because I keep getting login errors.

Download the MySQL Administrator to easily set up the right accounts. By default, IIRC, the username is "root" with no password. If you're not using the latest version of MySQL, you might want to install it. It has a better installer that lets you set up passwords and other options at install time.

[Liberal Classic]

LINUX = COMMUNIST

Your prejudices are showing. Where do people get these absurd ideas? Computers are apolitical. Use the right tool for the job. From some this means Windows for others it means Unix. Just because *you* don't like Unix doesn't mean that it isn't the right tool for some other people. You realize this website runs on Linux. Are you going to call the proprietorship commies, too? Sheesh.

[Doohickey]

Neat. Selling free software. Netscape jumps to mind.

[Doohickey]

No more "blue screen of death."

Correct. It's actually "purplish lavender screen of death"

[Doohickey]

Perhaps MS Works is a more logical comparison for the home user.

[this_ol_patriot]

I got the below link from the Mozilla forums here http://forums.mozillazine.org/index.php
it's a filterset, the latest by date, read the instructions.txt to see how to install.

I'm not using it because it takes away half the fun of poofing ads.

http://www.geocities.com/pierceive/adblock/?M=D

One thing I noticed about adblock is some pages won't load properly if ads on the page are already in the cache from when adblock was not installed or disabled. So I clear the cache after installing adblock or if I had it disabled for some reason.

[Terabitten]

In fact, I've said Open Office is an excellent choice for someone on a tight budget who needs a productivity package. My budget's not tight. I simply prefer OpenOffice.

I do too. OpenOffice is great for those of us who share files amongst a pile of people all using different office suites.

[Terabitten]

all testers liked Office 2003 and said staying with Office would likely provide the smoothest upgrade path.

I'm no techie, but I think that the above quote is what's telling here. They already have an Office product, and OpenOffice is a little different.

[antiRepublicrat]

Thanks for the list. I was wondering why somebody hadn't posted a definitive list to kill 90% of all ads, but I guess somebody did.

[1L]

>>So what. You asked what it's lacking *now*. Apparently, that wasn't good enough for you.<<

No I didn't ask for what's lacking; I asked you for examples, and this is a hollow example because its meaningless. It isn't that it wasn't good enough for me, its irrelevent. Much like Word doesn't come with a 350 Chevy Engine in it. That's hardly a drawback (well, at least not to everyone).

>>It doesn't round-trip VBA. So it's own macro language is useless.<<

I'm not sure what you mean by "round trip," but the language is not "useless." That's absurd.

>>Complicated tables.<<

Huh? Sounds like a user problem rather than a software problem. I did tables and sections in a newsletter recently in the Writer and had no problems. I've tried as much in Word and it has been more difficult.

Nice try. How about another example.

>>It's utterly limited in scope compared to MS Office.<<

This is conclusory BS. Be specific: what exactly will Word Excel and Powerpoint do that this product won't?

>>I provided a reasonably important feature that's missing in OO -- and you squeal like a stuck pig.<<

Now you are making a fool of yourself. Don't over-dramatize things. I didn't squeal. I pointed out, correctly, that this feature is not important. Give me an example of when you've used Words grammer checker and would have made a mistake without its use.

In my experience, the grammer checker flags stuff that isn't a problem. It doesn't flag all passive voice; it always flags long sentences, even when that writing is necessary; and to the legal practitioner, it isn't helpful in the least.

Meet my challenge: there are Word reviews on Amazon. Point to one that praises the grammer checker and labels it an "important" feature.

>>You don't use MS Office 2003, so you have no concept.<<

I use Excel 2003; I have used Office XP (mostly Word, Excel, Outlook, and Access, with a little PP).

You didn't answer my question. You are running and hiding.

>>I know it well enough to know that it isn't suitable for many corporate deployments.<<

You haven't provided anything other than a macro issue (that's easy to work around) that proves this. If you had truly used it for several months and found it suitable (when, exactly, during that several months did you come to that conclusion?), you would have to have more than these two examples.

What did you use it for? Be specific about the Writer, spreadsheet, and the other programs.

I have used MS Word since 1985. I have used Access since 1992; Excel since 1993; and PP since 1994. I know MS Office better than 98% of all users, and have developed apps in Excel and Access. Word has a bug on outline numbering, and for some reason, my XP Word "locked up" on occassion. Excel runs fairly well, although I hate much of what MS has done to the interface.

[antiRepublicrat]

Look it up here - its has boatloads of info on every spyware-related. http://www.spywarewarrior.com/index.html

Being a user of Firefox, I don't have to worry about accidental spyware installation while browsing. I also don't download any free software except known, trusted open source titles.

I am worried about spyware in commercial packages though, such as Lexmark monitoring your printing and scanning. They even initially denied it when a user complained.