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To: garandgal
Simple. It always is when you one does not appreciate the depth of the problem.

Winnebago is fabulously successful...sales AND profits have been increasing exponentially. They are run by the "old" business model

You are absolutely correct: I really do not know what YOU mean by the old vs. new business models. These terms have been used, and misused, in many different ways, and one must clarify any particular use. The onus is actually on you to do so.

it's telling that you have no idea to what I'm referring); their CEO has a two-year degree, started on the production floor and has worked his way to the top spot. That you fawn over this is hardly surprising: all people who celebrate ignorance view as heroes those that achieved much without education. It "proves" to them that education in unnecessary and is not useful.

This is in part what Dostoyevsky called arrogance of ignorance.

The old business model also included making a quality product, selling it at a reasonable price, and advising your investors that they could expect modestly good, steady profits.

Really? Why is it, then, Nike successfully sells at premium prices? What is the difference between cigarette brands? (Hint: hardly any; it's just positioning).

If you did bother to get at least tiny-tiny bit of basic knowledge --- from a book store, if not in the classroom -- you'd know that what you describe is so-called product concept. There are other orientations towards the marketplace: production concept (successfully practiced by Texas Instruments, for example), marketing concept (practiced today by most firms), and some others. No, these are not business models: they are orientations towards marketplace adopted by the firms. If interested, a good reference is P. Kotler, "Marketing Management" (try to get older, 5th edition).

Maytag (back when they were worth a crap) followed the same model. They strayed from the model drastically with their first MBA-made-delegate-while-I-run-my-fiefdom-and-collect-my-stock-options-CEO ("new" business model) and have continued with this same failed disastrous plan.

You continue to scream at the top of your lungs that you know not what you are talking about. Firstly, Maytag appears to have done as well or better as Winnebago --- up until the end of 1999:

As I said earlier, I do not know what specifically precipitated the drop. What I do remember -- and that was well known in the industry at the time --- that Maytag was being squeezed in mid 1990s on both sides by those concentrating at the high end of the market and the low-end brands of Sears and GE. Their current problems may therefore be intrinsic. If they persist, the company may indeed be acquired, but this is not necessarily an indication of anything wrong done by the management. Again, you simply do not understand what is involved here: if you work for a company, it does not mean that you kbow how the company functions (as you assume). This is much the same as driving a car: you may drive for decades still have no clue as to how the car works. And when it comes to management, you clearly don't know what you are talking about.

Incidentally, you also could've noticed that a comparison between Maytag and Winnebago is not quite legitimate: the latter is diversified, whereas the former is not. It is easier for a diversified company to withstand mishaps with one line of products.

The new business model is: profits, profits, profits... More ridiculous stuff that you'd never say if you just opened a book -- any book --- on business.

Top managers that devise and implement a company's strategy are not kings: they are employees just as you are. And just like all employees, they are given a task. Managers are hired by the owners of the firm and charged with a single task: to produce profits, return on the owners' investment. If the managers stray from that task, therefore, they are not doing their jobs and should be fired. This has been the foundation of law and corporate life since time immemorial --- way before our country became one. Open a book, please; any book.

...at the expense of quality, repeat business, employee loyalty...on and on. Again, one of the first things you'd hear in a marketing course if that it is impossible to produce profits at the expense of quality. In any course on Organizational Behavior you'd hear that it is impossible to achieve, or once achieved to sustain, success without employee loyalty (if tasks are complex). No idiot would therefore propose such a "business model." Most certainly even the worst of MBAs would know better. In other words, while it may appear to you that this is what management pursues, the truth is elsewhere. You can find, but that is not easy: in your case, it requires admission that education --- even simple reading --- is valuable.

As Nietzsche said, "If only he could shake his head, his burden would roll off his shoulders. But who can shake his head?" If only you could open your mind to knowledge, a few minutes of your time devoted to reading would produce amazing results. But who can pick up a book after spending her life holding reading and education in contempt?

151 posted on 11/24/2004 2:42:26 PM PST by TopQuark
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To: TopQuark
Again, one of the first things you'd hear in a marketing course if that it is impossible to produce profits at the expense of quality.

Patently untrue. The "expectations" of quality need to be lowered...that's all. I have to hand it to them; they have done that exceptionally well. The quality of products sold in nearly every category has nosedived to the point of hilarity. Buy a moderate quality, say, dresser in 1980; expect to have it for life. Buy one now (in the same price category in today's dollars) expect the front of the drawer to fall off in a year. When people don't have a moderately priced option, of course they will buy your junk.

In any course on Organizational Behavior you'd hear that it is impossible to achieve, or once achieved to sustain, success without employee loyalty (if tasks are complex).

Again, ridiculous; because employee loyalty is achieved today by the the "fear of loss"...not the hope of gain.

As Nietzsche said, "If only he could shake his head, his burden would roll off his shoulders. But who can shake his head?" If only you could open your mind to knowledge, a few minutes of your time devoted to reading would produce amazing results. But who can pick up a book after spending her life holding reading and education in contempt?

Unless you have a doctorate, my education is equal to, or better, than yours. It just wasn't an indoctrination by a bunch of 60's-era socialist business professors. Do you want to compare gradepoints...I'm MORE than willing. And, I read plenty, but in my various positions I have had a chance to observe the inner workings of many companies; some publicly traded and some not. I know what works...and what doesn't. My opinions on economic issues come from reality; not books. They used to be similar to yours.

Incidentally, the entire middle of your post is B.S. Maytag is on the ropes because of hideous management; going back for some years (I won't call the person out..but the current CEO is no better). They chose to "diversify" in an attempt to increase profits. They expanded on the low end and pulled the entire product line down the drain. That nearly always happens when you bring in an individual from a far-flung locale to run a business in which he/she has no vested interest other than stock options and bonuses. It WILL be sold, probably to a Japanese firm which is easily identifiable. And, no, I don't work for them.

165 posted on 11/25/2004 12:30:49 AM PST by garandgal
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To: TopQuark

Re: Maytag: Korean, not Japanese.


166 posted on 11/25/2004 12:42:34 AM PST by garandgal
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