Fossil Ape May Be Ancestor of All Apes - Report

Science - Reuters ^ | Thu Nov 18, 2004 | Maggie Fox

[Modernman]

Then where are the half-ape half-humans?

You mean like, say, Australopithicines?

Where are the current evolving species?

Everywhere around you. Human beings, for example.

Where are the proto-humans and super-humans?

What do you mean by proto-humans? There used to be more species of human floating around but the rest of them have gone extinct or have been absorbed into Homo Sapiens.

As for super-humans, what are you looking for, the X-Men? There is a mutation currently in the human gene pool that leads to increased muscle mass, if that counts.

[Modernman]

The proto-humans, seemingly spawned from primates, would've been better adapted than the primates, but the primates are still here and the proto-humans aren't.

Apes and such are still around because they fill an ecological niche quite well. Humans might be better at most things but the apes are good enough for where they fit in the ecosystem.

You are assuming that a species has to be the best to survive. That's really not true. Usually, being just okay is good enough.

[Modernman]

Yes, they do have to dissapear, if they don't then they didn't evolve.

Huh? Some species can remain mostly unchanged for long periods of time. Look at sharks or alligators. A species can give rise to another species but still continue to survive afterwards. Wasps evolved from ants, but ants are still around.

There are no transitional species and everytime they claim they have found one, it turns out to be something else.

Give evidence for your claim (hint: there is none).

The horse line that used to be found in books, is all fake, among other things

Sigh. The Smithsonian Museum of Natural History disagrees with you.

[js1138]

Humans are competetive with each other and kill each other. Could be one reason intelligence has been selected.

[rintense]

Fossil Ape May Be Ancestor of All Apes - Report

I didn't know Helen Thomas died.

[ZULU]

"Humans branched off from chimpanzees an estimated 7 million years ago."

Except for liberal DemocRats.

[Modernman]

Humans are competetive with each other and kill each other. Could be one reason intelligence has been selected.

Sure. I remember reading about which chimpanzees in a group tend to become the leader. It's not necesarily the biggest, most aggressive chimp. Usually, it's the chimp who can build alliances with other chimps in the group who comes out on top and the violent, aggressive ones are killed or driven out.

[Modernman]

Except for liberal DemocRats.

Stop insulting chimps. Chimps would never come up with an idea as stupid as affirmative action, for example.

[so_real]

Dogs. Domestic crop plants. Etc. They seem to reproduce just fine.

I spoke of mammals. In mentioning domestic crops you've headed for a tangent I won't follow as I cannot argue botany. As for dogs, all dog breeds are of the same species and have the same number of chromosomes -- hardly an evolutionary leap between them. Using that logic I could argue that a mulatto human is an example of an evolutionary new species. Pretty weak. Certainly nothing like the leap between the great apes having 24 chromosome pairs and humans with 23 chromosome pairs.

But in a gradual process like speciation, there's no point of "critical mass" as you put it -- what do you envision, that after a million years there's some sort of loud *pop* noise, and suddenly a new species arises overnight, leaving the crowd oohing and aahing?

Actually, I think that pretty closely describes the theory of modern evolutionists (minus the sarcasm) as a means of explaining away the relative lack of intermediate stage fossils. I just find it interesting; I don't come up with this stuff myself.

Wow, who's been filling *your* head full of nonsense? In the entire history of paleontology, there has been one (1) actual "hoax" ("Piltdown man"), one bone-headed mistake ("Nebraska man"), and one comedy of errors (National Geographic's recent debacle, quickly corrected). That's a far cry from your false accusation of "every" one "throughout history" proven to be a "hoax". You are, quite simply, either lying or parroting the lies of someone else. Either way, shame on you.

Okay, I'll bite, please name for me one "missing link" between ape and man in all of recorded history that has not been proven to be a hoax. I won't be offended by being called a liar, but I will require proof of it, which I do not think you can provide. And I'll even add one hoax ... Lucy ... to your list.

Kathleen Hunt has done a wonderful job of bringing together the theories of a number of scientists during her thesis work. I believe she is a very intelligent person. But vertebrate evolution, in her own words, is a "side interest" of hers and you must realize that placing various theories and research conveniently into one place and labeling it a "FAQ" does not make it a "FACT". It's also rather interesting that evolutionists seem to argue against each other as much as they argue against creationists.

You want to believe in evolution ... more power to you. I don't mind. But trying to put "shame" on me for not following suit and swallowing it hook-line-and-sinker is a little petty, don't you think? Greater minds than I have questioned evolution and I don't think they would consider me as grossly misinformed as you do. If that "missing link" is found and proven conclusively, I will happily buy you the frosty beverage of your choosing. But, I'm still not going to hold my breath.

[Modernman]

As for dogs, all dog breeds are of the same species and have the same number of chromosomes -- hardly an evolutionary leap between them.

Dogs have become a separate species from wolves during the course of human existence and they can still reproduce with wolves.

It's also rather interesting that evolutionists seem to argue against each other as much as they argue against creationists.

That's the way scientists work in all fields. Do you think there isn't a vigorous debate in the field of stellar physics, for example? Vigorous debate is a sign that the scientists in a given field are doing what they are supposed to.

[tnlibertarian]

Where are the ... super-humans?

If you wanted me, you could have just pinged me.

[PatrickHenry]

Okay, I'll bite, please name for me one "missing link" between ape and man in all of recorded history that has not been proven to be a hoax.

Human Ancestors
Comparison of all skulls

[stremba]

but, but, but... those aren't "missing links". They're just apes (or they're hoaxes). Show me something that's half human half ape </creationist mode>

[longshadow]

half ape-half placemarker

[VadeRetro]

Put down the pamphlet and step away from it, Mr. Bates. ("Mother" gave you that, didn't she?)

Now, what's this about no transitions?

[Pharmboy]

Only in the structural genes--regulatory genes appear to be more different.

[Protagoras]

None of the primates of 13 million years ago are still here. They have all evolved forward.

Some took one path (such as the apes), some another (such as the chimps and humans), some yet another (such as the gibbons and their cousins). But in no case is there a primate specie alive today that is exactly as it was 13 million years ago.

All have changed.

I'm not a fundie, but I challenge you to prove your claims. Or alternately admit that they are theory.

[Alamo-Girl]

Thanks for the ping!

[stremba]

Conceeded. Still the point is that it is not a massive amount of mutation needed to differentiate an ancestral ape into humans in one lineage and chimps in another.

[Protagoras]

Or just another extinct species.

I can't remember the exact number, but almost all the species that have ever existed are extinct.