Posted on 11/17/2004 1:47:01 PM PST by johnny7
HUMAN rights groups said today the killing by a US marine of a wounded Iraqi could amount to a war crime and showed the need for US forces to be better trained about the laws of war. "If it is what it appears to be, then obviously it would be a grave breach of the Geneva Conventions. It would probably be a war crime," said Joe Stork, Washington director of the Middle East division of Human Rights Watch.
Human Rights Watch and Amnesty International echoed calls by the top UN human rights official, Louise Arbour, for an investigation of suspected abuses in Fallujah, Iraq, including the disproportionate use of force and targeting of civilians. The US military has launched an investigation after NBC pool footage showed a US marine shooting a wounded and unarmed man in a mosque in Fallujah, the scene of fierce fighting in the past week. NBC said the marine had been shot in the face the day before, and his fellow soldiers have spoken out in his defence, saying he was under combat stress in unpredictable, dangerous circumstances.
Amnesty International spokesman Alistair Hodgett said investigations into other incidents in Iraq had been too slow and he urged a prompt, open, inquiry, after which findings should be made public. "The deliberate shooting of unarmed and wounded fighters who pose no immediate threat is a war crime under international law and there is therefore an obligation on the US authorities to investigate all such reports and to hold perpetrators of such crimes accountable before the law," said Amnesty. Amnesty International had already called on US authorities to investigate an earlier incident aired on British television in which a US soldier appeared to have fired one shot in the direction of a wounded insurgent. Mr Hodgett said Amnesty was particularly concerned US military leaders had not properly communicated legal obligations to forces on the ground about the treatment of wounded prisoners and the protection of civilians. "This latest incident is just a further reminder that one cannot take it for granted that troops on the ground will strive to abide by the spirit and the letter of the law if they are not given leadership on that matter," he said.
Of particular concern, said Mr Hodgett, were comments in the past by US Defence Secretary Donald Rumsfeld calling "war on terror" suspects "killers" and "the worst of the worst". "Sadly I think some of the consequences of this (attitude) have played out on the battlefield," Mr Hodgett said. The Fallujah shooting incident followed others in which US troops have been accused of violations in Iraq, including the Abu Ghraib prison scandal that resulted in the sentencing of several US soldiers.
Military law expert Eugene Fidell said he was uncomfortable linking the latest incident to the Abu Ghraib prison scandal where soldiers were accused of sexually abusing and mistreating prisoners. "But if the facts are as they appear to be, this is a matter that cannot be swept under the rug. If it leads to a careful evaluation of the training and instructions that the marines and the Army in Iraq have had, that will be extremely desirable," said Mr Fidell, a visiting lecturer at Harvard Law School.
Mr Fidell said he anticipated a general-court martial in which the suspect could be sentenced to death or life without parole if found guilty, but added that was highly unlikely because of extenuating circumstances.
Petition signed. Anyone got one telling Chrissie Matthews and NBS to "shove it"?
These people would like nothing better than for our troops to be followed into battle by cops ready to slap handcuffs on them at any moment, and for the insurgents to be accompanied by attorneys ready to file suit against any and all attackers.
The only thing that will satisfy them, really, is for us to give up the fight all together. In the end, it isn't what we do that so offends them, but the fact that we did it without their permission.
In all of our discussions about international law, the laws of war, the Geneva convention and various other human rights conventions, its easy to lose track of the fact that War is not a lawful enterprise, however hard we try to make it so.
War is the absense of law. War is the state that exists when law is inadequate to contain a conflict. If law, and conventions, and treaties were operable, it would not be war. It is war precisely because they are not. Law has failed, the institutions we depend upon to serve us and protect us have failed, policemen, judges, diplomats have all failed, and there is nothing left now but to send in the men with the guns to wipe the board clean, to kill the men who could not be reasoned with.
The soldier returns us to the rule of law by killing those who will not submit to law. But the soldier is outside civilian law; while the war continues civilian law is not operable. If it were, again, we would not be at war. Soldiers are bound by the strictures of morality, and military discipline, in fact military discipline must be as tight as it is in part because normal law is not operable.
If more people were familiar with military service, this would not be an issue. People who can put themselves in the shoes of the marine can understand very well how dangerous it is to clear a building after a gunfight. The decision to shoot or not to shoot must be made in a fraction of a second, with no time to reflect until you are an old man far from the battlefied. If you live to be that old man, you made the right decision. The rest is theoretical.
Thanks! I think so too.
If the left is so fired up that these people have a say in their government, why don't they run as candidates in the election? Because they are not Iraqi nationals?
This is pure antiAmerican hatred because when it boils down to it, the socialists must overthrow the systems of Western civilization to bring us their "Utopia". God and European culture out of the schools (dead white men) and replaced with pagan worship of the environment (Gia, mother Earth) and multiculturalism.
Liberal guilt will be the doom of us all.
If civilian law applied to warfare, neither side would legally be able to fire the first shot.
It was a war crime. The enemy combatant was faking death in contravention of the geneva convention. Unfortunately he was shot and killed by the brave marine before he could be tried.
If "embedded journalists" are going to circumvent the apparatus of the arrangement with the military by which they release footage that they have shot then I would say that such a "journalist" is in actuality a SPY.
What sort of punishment is he looking at for not releasing this through proper channels? What else has he passed along? To whom?
"Liberal guilt will be the doom of us all."
Yes, they have a death wish. Thinking that Western culture does not deserve to survive. (To be replaced by terrorist Islamic-ruled societies? How Utopian is THAT?)
HOWEVER, we do not have to agree with them! Let them take their "death wish" to their graves, so to speak. ;)
We have people who still are willing to defend us and our way of life and culture.
God BLESS those in the military in harm's way!
Sorry, I lost track. Is that Kenmore/Whirlpool the german one that you are talking about?. Or Miele?.
"People who can put themselves in the shoes of the marine "
Indeed. The first one who should have done it, but did not, was Sites.
Peace Nazi, I like it. Reminds me of FemiNazi.
Hey Aussies or whomever..... come over here and try and get the Marine.... I dare you bunch of p@ssies..... to please try to serve a warrant on him.
"Miele"
I wouldn't recommend it, if I were not so satisfied. Top notch quality. They make them to last, not to end up in the landfill!
Good luck in your decisions. One of these days, I'll find a fridge to replace this lousy thing!
All of us to Congress. That would be something!
Thanks. It's good to have references. I will look for Miele then.
xzins said :
"This will get me out in the street if they bring that Marine up on charges.
This is the pc-socialists persecuting our troops all over again...Vietnam all over again."
Vietnam all over again...
The Left is empowered by the Right
who do nothing to oust Hanoi Kerry out of the US Senate.
He STILL thinking again about running for President in 2008.
I saw him today say this on TV.
When will the Right finally learn they must stand up and expose this traitor?
He's NOT going away.
By the time 2008 comes he will be regarded as a great American hero by the Left.
Please take the time to read this article.
http://www.augustafreepress.com/stories/storyReader$28503
How long till the next attack on the military by Hanoi Kerry?
ABC, AP, CBS, CNN, FOX, MSNBC, NBC, NY Times
will be sure to bring you Hanoi Kerry's latest propaganda.
Then ask your US Senator why Hanoi Kerry is still a US Senator.
Timeline of Hanoi Kerry
http://www.archive-news.net/Kerry/JK_timeline.html
I VOW to the 58,000 + Brothers and Sisters on
The Viet Nam Wall who never came home
and to those who died at home from injuries and
from broken hearts.
"I will do everything I LEGALLY can
to expose Hanoi Kerry once and for all.
I will not tire, I will not falter,
and I will not fail.
I solemnly vow to do all I can to restore your honor
until I give my last breath on earth."
Please take the time to read this article.
http://www.augustafreepress.com/stories/storyReader$28503
How long till the next attack on the military by Hanoi Kerry?
ABC, AP, CBS, CNN, FOX, MSNBC, NBC, NY Times
will be sure to bring you Hanoi Kerry's latest propaganda.
Then ask your US Senator why Hanoi Kerry is still a US Senator.
Timeline of Hanoi Kerry
http://www.archive-news.net/Kerry/JK_timeline.html
I VOW to the 58,000 + Brothers and Sisters on
The Viet Nam Wall who never came home
and to those who died at home from injuries and
from broken hearts.
"I will do everything I LEGALLY can
to expose Hanoi Kerry once and for all.
I will not tire, I will not falter,
and I will not fail.
I solemnly vow to do all I can to restore your honor
until I give my last breath on earth."
Just so's you know, HRW is just another bunch of evil, leftist nutburgers ... they're also queers.
You are right. If they cared ANYTHING about real "atrocities" Kerry would have been toast the second he proclaimed "reporting for . . . " [I would choke if I said the rest] at his convention.
Kerry IS the comparison. Has anyone outside of FR yet made that point? Well, I did hear Hannity say it.
Keep up the good fight. Old soldiers never die . . . they have to keep fighting! [Ain't it a shame folks who have done their duty can't just live in peace and quiet? ]
The Geneva convention specifically applies only to signatories who observe the rules of war. Neither of those conditions is met by our enemies in Fallujah.
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