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F-16 in competition for 125 Indian fighters
Press Trust of India ^ | 17-11-04

Posted on 11/17/2004 7:55:11 AM PST by sukhoi-30mki

PTI PRINT EMAIL IAF 'F-16 in race to sell aircraft to IAF'

BANGALORE, NOV 17 (PTI)

America's F-16 aircraft will be in the race for India's new plan to acquire 125 supersonic fighters, a top IAF official said today.

The Indian Air Force will insist on a technology transfer by aircraft manufacturers, including parting with the source code for avionics, Vice Chief of Air Staff, Air Marshal S K Malik told reporters here on the sidelines of the 45th annual conference of the Indian Society of Aerospace Medicine.

"We have not shortlisted any aircraft nor discounted any," Malik said.

"We will go global. Perhaps F-16 will be there, (Swedish) Grippen, Mirage 2000 and MiG 29 will be there," he said.

Malik said the qualifying requirements (QR) will be put in place shortly and presentations by the manufacturers invited for the aircraft which will then be followed by the issue of request for proposals (RFP) by the IAF.

"Product support should be guaranteed and uninterrupted, if for any reason there are sanctions on us, spares should be given," he said.

Malik said the manufacturers should transfer the technology for crucial spares and "for the software, the source code should be shared with us as there will be a need for upgradation over a few years." He said the move to go in for multiple vendors was to get better flexibility and cited the difficulty IAF faced during the acquisition of the British Hawk Advanced Jet Trainer (AJT) from a single vendor.

Malik said the initial process of identifying the aircraft which IAF wants to buy, to replace the ageing MiGs, would take around two years.


TOPICS: Extended News; Foreign Affairs
KEYWORDS: armsbuildup; china; f16; grippen; iaf; india; mig29; mirage2000; pakistan
It's significant that the IAF is finally admitting that they are considering the F-16 as a potential replacement for their Mig-21/23/Jaguar etc-though the Mirage-2005Mk2 & Mig-29M appear to be the favourites given that early variants of both jets serve in the IAF.Moreover both Russia & France have been far more flexible on transfering high-tech systems to India & also tying up with Israel than the US has been.The statement about the F-16 & the JAS-39 seems to be to pressurise the French for a better deal.2 weeks ago,the British also offered their Eurofighter Typhoon to India-very strange!!!
1 posted on 11/17/2004 7:55:12 AM PST by sukhoi-30mki
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To: sukhoi-30mki
I wouldn't give up avionic source code to anyone....

Mike

2 posted on 11/17/2004 7:57:58 AM PST by MichaelP
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To: sukhoi-30mki
The Indian Air Force will insist on a technology transfer by aircraft manufacturers, including parting with the source code for avionics

I bet that blows the deal right there... unless our export versions are already compromised.

3 posted on 11/17/2004 7:57:59 AM PST by grobdriver (Let the embeds check the bodies!)
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To: sukhoi-30mki
The Indian Air Force will insist on a technology transfer by aircraft manufacturers, including parting with the source code for avionics

Sadly, Robert Zoellick, Gregory Mankiw and John Snow will insist on this transfer as well.

4 posted on 11/17/2004 8:01:21 AM PST by Willie Green (Go Pat Go!!!)
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To: sukhoi-30mki
I think India will probably choose the MiG-29M on one condition: India is allowed the produce the plane under license.

The MiG-29M is an excellent fighter, provided the plane has the right avionics and also less smoky engines.

5 posted on 11/17/2004 8:02:16 AM PST by RayChuang88
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To: RayChuang88

The French have already given the go-ahead for license production if the Mirage is selected-so did a delegation from Lockheed Martin for the F-16.License manufacturing is one thing-India getting what it wants is another-only the Russians,French & Israelis fulfil that criterion.

If the Mig-29M is selected-you can be sure that there will be a lot of French & Israeli avionics in it as has been the practise with most recent Indian fighter upgrades.


6 posted on 11/17/2004 8:06:29 AM PST by sukhoi-30mki
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To: MichaelP
Hey india here's the source code. Have fun. #include #include #include #define S(n) t[n-'a'] #define F fgets(s,64,in) #define K(n) fseek(in,n,SEEK_SET) int t[26];int I,O;FILE*in;int sub(int a,int b){return a<'a'?printf((a=='A'?"%c": "%d"),S(b)):(S(a)-=b=='I'?getchar():S(b));}exec(char*n){long e,r;char x,y,s[64]; int b,i,c=1;for(K(0);F&&!strstr(s,n););if(feof(in))exit(1);for(e=ftell(in);!feof (in)&&!strchr(s,'}');++c){*strchr(F,'\n')='{';if(s[0]-'}'){if(strstr(s,"subbnp&q )for(sscanf(s,"%*s %c %c %d",&x,&y,&b),K(e),i=c=sub(x,y)>0?c:c+b-1;i--;F);else i f(strchr(s,'=')){sscanf(s,"%c%*c%d",&x,&b);S(x)=b;}else{r=ftell(in);exec(s) ;}}}}main(int a,char**v){in=fopen(v[1],"r");exec("main");} Take about a couple hundred thousand lines of that and they might be able to figure it out in a few years.
7 posted on 11/17/2004 8:07:09 AM PST by bahblahbah
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To: sukhoi-30mki
This will turn out like the many Boeing deals - they consider a US firm just to throw it back in our face later by choosing a Euro or Russian model.

There are many advantages to twin-engines, which the F-16 is not. It's getting a little old in the tooth anyway.

8 posted on 11/17/2004 8:07:11 AM PST by struwwelpeter
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To: bahblahbah
Bleh
 
#include  
#include  
#include  
#define S(n) t[n-'a'] 
#define F fgets(s,64,in) 
#define K(n) fseek(in,n,SEEK_SET) 
int t[26];int I,O;FILE*in;int sub(int a,int b){return a<'a'?printf((a=='A'?"%c": 
"%d"),S(b)):(S(a)-=b=='I'?getchar():S(b));}exec(char*n){long e,r;char x,y,s[64]; 
int b,i,c=1;for(K(0);F&&!strstr(s,n););if(feof(in))exit(1);for(e=ftell(in);!feof 
(in)&&!strchr(s,'}');++c){*strchr(F,'\n')='{';if(s[0]-'}'){if(strstr(s,"subbnp&q 
)for(sscanf(s,"%*s %c %c %d",&x,&y,&b),K(e),i=c=sub(x,y)>0?c:c+b-1;i--;F);else i 
f(strchr(s,'=')){sscanf(s,"%c%*c%d",&x,&b);S(x)=b;}else{r=ftell(in);exec(s) 
;}}}}main(int a,char**v){in=fopen(v[1],"r");exec("main");}

9 posted on 11/17/2004 8:07:46 AM PST by bahblahbah
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To: grobdriver

F-16s sold to Arab nations like the UAE(BLK-60) are more advanced than the ones currently in US service-coming with a AESA radar.


10 posted on 11/17/2004 8:08:05 AM PST by sukhoi-30mki
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To: struwwelpeter

Hmm,if twin engines are the criterion,then consider that the Mig-29M has been selected!!both the Grippen & the Mirage-20005 are single engined as both were designed to be in the same league as the F-16 as far as capabilities/roles go.Moreover,these 125 jets are to complement the IAF's long range(twin engined) SU-30MKI fighter-bombers.

The reason why the F-16 will probably lose out is the absolute lack of trust between both sides.


11 posted on 11/17/2004 8:11:44 AM PST by sukhoi-30mki
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To: sukhoi-30mki
F-16s sold to Arab nations like the UAE(BLK-60) are more advanced than the ones currently in US service-coming with a AESA radar.

But did the ragheads get source code and "technology transfer" of the avionics (which I believe means they can build the stuff themselves under license)?

12 posted on 11/17/2004 8:11:56 AM PST by grobdriver (Let the embeds check the bodies!)
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To: bahblahbah
Why make it easier for 'em?
You shoulda left it the way you had it the first time.
13 posted on 11/17/2004 8:13:55 AM PST by Willie Green (Go Pat Go!!!)
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To: Willie Green
Whoops that was the wrong source. Here is the real avionic source code.
#include 
#include 
#include 
#include 
#define t(x) typedef x
#define G return
#define Y(x) x;x
#define e(s) exit(s);
#define b(x,o) x o x
#define Z while
#define y fclose
#define end static

t(signed)char U;t(struct) b(O,);

t(						    U*)
H;						    t(O
*)						    *o;
struct O{ O* l, **h; void* L; } ; t(int)i; i P(U g) { G
isspace(g); } H D(H s){H p,r;if(!s)G 0;for(p=(H)s;*p &&
!P(*p); p++); if(r=malloc(p-s))for(p=r; *s&&! P(*s);p++
,s++)b(*,p=) s; G r;} void l(o p,O*x){*(o)x=* p; *p=x;}
#define m(x) do{ if(!(q = malloc(sizeof(O)))) e(1)q->l\
=0						    ;q\
->						    L=\
		    x ; } while (0)
		i(*R)(i) =putchar;i h(
	    o f,H d,U c){O*q; f+=c;Z(d&&*d)
	  { m(D(d)); l(f++, q); Z(*d && !P(*d
	)) d++; Z(*d && P(*d)) d++; } G b(,0);}
     void k() { static U b(c,;) ?R(c):(c='\n'); }
     i main (i Q,		     H *l){static o
   X;i t,j;				   switch (Q
 ){ case				       1: { H
 *p, I						 [] ={
"aH"						   " "
"B"						    "0"
" "						    "B"
""						    "B"
""						    " "
"B"						    ","
" "						   ","
 " `"						  "0 "
 "b0 "						 "@, "
  "0 Hb,"				      " B2 "
   "H0 b, B b"				"H HB b`, "
     "H, @ 2 `, "		     "@2 H2 BH Bb"
      " b@","AH B0 BB B, , `0 b0 @, 0 Hb, B2 H0"
	" b, B bH HB b`, H, @ 2 `, @2 H2 BH Bb"
	  " b@","0bHb, HbH `H2 @b, @H @0 B@ "
	      "b@ bH0 bHB",".HHH","?`H0",
		",b@b,"," +", 0}; p=I;

		    if (!(X=calloc(
		6<<6,sizeof(O*))))e(1)
	    do{h(X,(*p)+1,**p);} Z(*(++p));
	  D: if ((t = getchar()) >= 0) { k();
	goto u;}e(0)}case 2:{U *p,e[33]; b(i, )
     ,w;for(i=0;i<34;i++)i[e]=b(0,;w=);p=e; Z(1){
    t = (w == 200) ?		     10:getchar();
   switch(t) {				   case 0xa:
 case EOF:				       if(w--
 ){R(1[l					 ][0])
;for(i						   =0,
p=e;i						    <=w
;i+=						    6){
R (						    *p+
'+'						    );*
p++						    =0;
 ;}						    R(
 0xa						   );w
  =-1						 ;}p=
    e-					      1;case
      32:				    if (t<0) e(
	0)				    break; /*/*
	  /*/				    default : *
	    p
		    |=(001<<(w%6));
		}if((++w%6)==0)p++;}e(
	    0)}case 3:{O*u,*q,*x;U s[0400];
	  i i;FILE*F; j:j=1;if(!(X=calloc(6<<
	6,sizeof(O*)))) e(1) if(!(F=fopen(j[l],
     "r")))e(1)Z(fgets(s,j<<8,F))(*s)&&h(X,s+j,*s
    );j=b(i,=)&0xff;		     i:u=0;x=X[i];
   Z(x){q=Y(*(				   o)x)=Y(u)
 =Y(x)=q;}				       i[X]=u
 ;i=(i-2					 +9)%(
sizeof						   (s))
;if(i						    ^j)
goto						    i;;
y(F)						    ; }
case						    4:{
end						    i i
 ;if						    (!
 X){						   i=j
  =1;						 goto
    j;}					      if(i){O
      **x				    ,*m=*(x=X);
	do*				    x=1[x];Z(++
	  xL;Z(*p>=n){i=(*p++)-n;for(c=0;c<6;c++,i=i
     >>1){ if(b(!, i		     &&)(*p >= n))
   break;R(32+				   (i&1)*3);
 }}R(10);a				       =a->l;
 }if(Q<2					 )goto
D;if(*						   l[2
]){R(						    10)
;main						    (4,
l);						    }}}
Z(Q						    ++<
1){						    X+=
 t;						    if
 ((t						   &7)
  >3)						 goto
    i;					      else {
      t--				    ;putchar(t)
	;t				    =(t&7)?t:t-
	  '*'				    ;}}exit(0);
	    }

14 posted on 11/17/2004 8:22:32 AM PST by bahblahbah
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To: MichaelP
The UAE wanted F-16 source code, but it was not granted. They wanted the U.S. com-link system, they got one, but not like ours. Foreign customers always look for technology transfers. Lockheed did it with F2 (japanese version F16). Lockheed got much needed composite technology, which helped right after the A-12 cancellation (a poorly designed cancelled stealth fighter/bomber).

These countries always shoot for the moon. No one will give them the code. It's like cutting your own throat. They will probably go with the block 50+ F-16 or look for a comparable version of the Block 60 (UAE version) F-16. A mirage is a crop duster wannabe. Besides the french have written an auto surrender routine into the flight control computer system.
15 posted on 11/17/2004 9:57:40 AM PST by kajun
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somewhat amusing to see what other countries have to settle for, thinking they have the best air defense money can buy.
the US has the mother of all jet fighters, won't be matched by anyone for multiple generations of fighters to come from other countries....
F/A-22 blows em all away
16 posted on 11/17/2004 10:01:05 AM PST by jer2911tx (john kerry doesn't like rice, or as he calls it 'weapons of ass destruction')
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To: sukhoi-30mki
They want the source code ???!!!! Damn, the Indians must think we are are total fools. Of course, looking at our trade policy I can understand how they would be under that impression.

Only fools would allow in goods and services from a nation such as India while they have huge tariffs against us. They are playing us, using us, and can't be trusted.
17 posted on 11/17/2004 10:38:08 AM PST by StolarStorm
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To: StolarStorm

The whole world is a strategic game. Life is a savage garden. Beware!


18 posted on 11/17/2004 5:18:42 PM PST by CarrotAndStick (The articles posted by me needn't necessarily reflect my opinion.)
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To: CarrotAndStick
Life is a savage garden.

Huh?

19 posted on 11/17/2004 5:27:43 PM PST by AM2000 (I am not responsible for the contents of this post.)
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To: kajun

The Mirage-a "cropduster wannabe"??

Well try telling that to the airforces of the UAE,Greece,Taiwan & Egypt-all of whom use both the F-16 & Mirage-2000/20005.The Mirage's combat record is no less than that of the F-16.A Mirage-2005 armed with the Mica AAM & Storm Shadow cruise missile or corresponding Israeli weapons(which India is likely to have) can take on most F-16s on any day.

PS-why don't the folks on here restrict their love for the French to the political arena??this looks really childish.


20 posted on 11/17/2004 6:43:22 PM PST by sukhoi-30mki
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