Posted on 11/15/2004 3:56:58 PM PST by Kaslin
I'm not saying I know anything more than what's on the tape, and what background information was provided with it. I don't have special insight into his situation, other than having been in very similar ones, and having seen how the military acts when the media is around.
Ollie wants to see all the facts. Ollie is also sophistcated enough like Steel to consider appearances. He DID go through Iran Contra after and even took shots from Nancy Reagan.
I have a feeling if you asked Allawi, away from cameras of course, what he thinks of the situation, he would probably look at you like you were crazy. I'm sure the ones like him that don't use these incidents as propaganda, think that the US is too cautious.
From what I gather, the people in that area of the world wouldn't know a Code of Honor or ROE if they bit them in the nose. They just don't think the way we do. They probably would shrug it off if it wasn't being sensationalized all over the world.
Exactly. And as you are well aware, that isn't enough to pass judgement on anybody. Especially when the tape and background information are provided solely by the MSM.
I'm having a really difficult time here on this thread. You see, I just don't give a damn if that man was shot and killed by the Marine. I don't care if he was an innocent or a fighter. I don't care if he was wounded, raised his hand or whistled Dixie. Some folks are just in the wrong place at the wrong time in the wrong war.
I am not forgetting that all women, children and men over forty five years old were warned to evacuate weeks before the assault began. Men under forty five years old were warned to travel checkpoints and surrender because they would not be allowed to flee the city. These men in that mosque, who stayed, chose their deaths.
If we even have thoughts of this Marine to be in any way punished for killing the enemy, we should hang our head in shame.
You're saying the laws of war don't apply to U.S. forces. I disagree. I'm not prejuding this incident yet, however.
What is that supposed to mean?
I wasn't critisizing Ollie North--I love the guy. I was relaying what he said, and I agree with him. This is going to be made the story of Fallujah.
That was his point, that the Marines, though terrific professionals, know that you will be excoriated by the press over something like this.
I just think that he and I would agree that this could have been handled responsibly and correctly without making this Marine the face of the "big bad Marines that execute defensless insurgents". Like I said in a former post, if the guy would have had a grenade, and saved the lives of all of the people in the mosque, nothing would have been said. I'm sure he wouldn't have gotten a Silver Star.
If I had a nickle for every time someone said 'you've got to be kidding' about the ROE in Iraq, I'd be a rich man. I'm always hesitant to jump on these threads, because the reality sounds crazy.
We're working with both hands tied behind our backs in almost every case. We'll still wind up winning, because our feet are free and we can kick like who wants it, but using the hands would make it a lot easier. I'm 100% for OIF, even if I lodge the occasional complaint on how it being run.
You know what? Its WORSE than that.
If we had done a cordon and long stick bombing result would likely be most mosques intact and Zarqawi dead along with most leadership dead. ING clears out mosques and maybe we lose five marines instead of 38+
I think that Marines should be given the benefit of the doubt unless they get caught doing something really stoopid.
Lets sleep deprive some folks for 36 hours, pump them with no-doze and send them to the terrorist/hostage range and then put them in jail if they dont perform 100%
and all the while live rounds going off around them.
It is absurd to demand perfection in a this kind of environment.
I have a hard time believing that this guy will escape punishment, knowing how loose the system works when the media is involved. I hope I'm wrong. I hope there's evidence that the Marine was justified within the ROE and the UCMJ in his actions, and I hope that someone looks at it.
GOOD.
Good Lord when did that happen ?
And what would have happened had the situation been reversed?
I'm with you. But my initial read of your comments were that you were passing judgement on what the man did, not on how his actions would be handled by the military. I apologize if that wasn't correct. Unfortunately, I agree with your assessment of how the media influences the military's response to certain incidents. Tailhook comes to mind. However, when the investigation concerns something that isn't purely political correctness run wild, the UCMJ does a decent job of protecting the rights of all involved. Actually, I'd say more than a decent job. In fact, I trust it a lot more than the civil courts.
My sentiments exactly!!! The enenmy pretends to be dead, and then when Our Soldiers turn their backs, they throw a grenade at them!!!!
Good for him......They should shoot them.....all....or else they'll come back and shoot our guys!!!
This is WAR !!!! You can't be politically correct in WAR!!!
The Media shouldn't be allowed to go with these guys!!! Who's side are they on???
Unbelievable.......Our young soldiers are getting killed every day, but, OH, killing an enemy....Who knows what he's hiding!!!! Don't trust anyone...
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