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Dear tpaine,

"Do you accept the fact that the instant after conception, a woman still has basic human rights, and that her just fertilized human egg arguably does not?"

I accept the first clause, not the second. The newly-created human being also enjoys natural rights.

Rights do not come from recognition by the government. All human beings have natural rights. The instant after conception, a woman still enjoys her natural rights. So does the newly-created human being within her.

"--- And, that it is an unresolved Constitutional question as to exactly when that fertilized human egg develops into a person with rights of its own?"

Well, that's another argument. The Supreme Court of 1973 hijacked the whole question. Nonetheless, rights precede states and governments, and precede government recognition thereof.

If rights are inalienable (do you believe that?), then they inhere as a matter of existence. If a human being exists, she has inalienable rights.

One of those is to life.

The existence of a human being begins at the conception of the human being. Thus, the human being's fundamental rights also begin at that point.

"Until you can honestly admit that governments have no power to decide those issues, we will have to let juries, operating under due process, do it."

Governments certainly have the power to recognize the rights that inhere inalienably to human beings. In fact, to this they are obligated.

That is why there are laws against various sorts of unjust homicide, theft, fraud, etc.

Deciding the facts of an individual case, guilt or innocence, whether or not someone actually transgressed the law, is the job of the jury.

Making law that protects the rights of ALL human beings is the job of the government.

That's the American way.

sitetest

Do you accept the fact that the instant after conception, a woman still has basic human rights, and that her just fertilized human egg arguably does not?

I accept the first clause, not the second.

Your rejection of the reality that the argument exists is irrational. We have no way to resolve it, so would you lose by default.

The newly-created human being also enjoys natural rights.

That's an arguable opinion.

Rights do not come from recognition by the government. All human beings have natural rights. The instant after conception, a woman still enjoys her natural rights.

Agreed.

So does the newly-created human being within her.

You repeat, -- I repeat. --- that is an unresolved Constitutional question as to exactly when that fertilized human egg develops into a person with rights of its own.

Well, that's another argument.

Its the same argument, one you can't rebut.

The Supreme Court of 1973 hijacked the whole question.

No, they simply said they didn't know when 'personhood' began, and that states must use due process in regulating abortion. They suggested that States use the trimester 'scheme' we all argue about.

Nonetheless, rights precede states and governments, and precede government recognition thereof. If rights are inalienable (do you believe that?), then they inhere as a matter of existence. If a human being exists, she has inalienable rights.

Yep, at some unknown point a fertilized human egg develops into a person with inalienable rights.

One of those is to life. The existence of a human being begins at the conception of the human being. Thus, the human being's fundamental rights also begin at that point.

You opinion does not become a fact by repetition.

Until you can honestly admit that governments have no power to decide those issues, we will have to let juries, operating under due process, do it.

Governments certainly have the power to recognize the rights that inhere inalienably to human beings.

Your begging the question again. Are fertilized human eggs 'beings with rights'.

In fact, to this they are obligated. That is why there are laws against various sorts of unjust homicide, theft, fraud, etc.

And that is why we have trials by juries, not decrees by legislators.

Deciding the facts of an individual case, guilt or innocence, whether or not someone actually transgressed the law, is the job of the jury. Making law that protects the rights of ALL human beings is the job of the government.

Exactly. ALL human beings, -- including pregnant women.

That's the American way.