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To: narses
It's understandable that people with problems and financial difficulties are tempted by the promises of government benefits, etc. You can't trade away the lives of the innocent unborn and the moral foundations of civilized society for government money. Anyone with a firm grasp of ethics should understand this.

Personally, I would rather starve and be homeless sleeping in the open air than to ever vote for a baby-killer or anti-Catholic secular humanist liberal.

If people think the social safety net should be larger, lobby pro-life Republicans on these issues.

16 posted on 11/12/2004 4:03:47 AM PST by HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity
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To: HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity

I agree.


19 posted on 11/12/2004 4:05:27 AM PST by narses (The fight to protect the unborn is THE civil rights battle of the 21st century. + Vivo Christo Rey!)
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To: HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity
I totally agree.

I told my father in law that I would not vote for a pro abort candidate ever again. He is an old school Catholic Democrat, who has never voted anything else. My mother in law is different though. She doesn't like some of the Republican platform, but will vote for them rather than a pro abort Democrat.
64 posted on 11/12/2004 7:13:37 AM PST by redgolum (Molon labe)
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To: HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity

Indeed. It would be far easier to get a Republican to support expanded social programs than it would be to get a Democrat to compromise on "Choice".

The problem with the Democrat Party is that they are utterly beholden to three groups (Pro-Choice, Union and Minority Huckster). Remove any one of those three, and the three-legged stool will not stand.


65 posted on 11/12/2004 7:20:26 AM PST by gridlock (FOUR MORE YEARS!!!! FOUR MORE YEARS!!!!)
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To: HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity
It's understandable that people with problems and financial difficulties are tempted by the promises of government benefits, etc. You can't trade away the lives of the innocent unborn and the moral foundations of civilized society for government money. Anyone with a firm grasp of ethics should understand this.

Personally, I would rather starve and be homeless sleeping in the open air than to ever vote for a baby-killer or anti-Catholic secular humanist liberal.

If people think the social safety net should be larger, lobby pro-life Republicans on these issues.

Thank you for these words. I am as conservative as they come on social issues, but the cooption of conservatism by economic Darwinism truly disturbs me. How can anyone who opposes the loathsome killing of the disabled (because they'd be a drain on the system) turn around and call for a Malthusian/Darwinist society in which "nature" would cull the unfit? It's disgusting.

I've been poor all my life. I was born in practically "third world" poverty, yet my father worked like a slave all his life. Where was his Horatio Alger story? The belief that unregulated capitalism would create a perfect society is as utopian as any socialist notion.

There are people on this thread obsessed with the idea that someone who isn't working isn't being Darwinistically eliminated from the population. But not everyone who isn't working is lazy. Some people can't work. Shall nature cull them and "decrease the surplus population" as Scrooge put it? Anti-infanticide simply does not fit in with social Darwinism very well. I'm sorry.

I don't wish to offend those who believe that the State should not perform these charitable functions. I know that there should be a large non-state social infrastructure to do this. But not everyone has a large family to fall back on (I am one example; practically all my relatives are dead). What I am objecting to is a rabid economism that simply does not fit with a G-dly view of the world. And for the record, "lazy people" did not invent Communism. Communism and socialism are not movements of "lazy people" but of "the workers." The goal of conventional leftwing socialism has always been to reduce everyone to manual drudgery, which it celebrates as "toil." Communist states shoot "parasites." With civilization collapsing all around us this is not the time for doctrinaire, materialist economism of any kind.

The ironic thing to all this is that I myself believe we should explore pre-capitalist, rightwing alternatives to today's competing economic systems (ultimately based on the Torah, perhaps using the economic and property system of ancient Israel as a guide). What's ironic about this? That the people on the Right who agree with me on these things tend to be militantly anti-Jewish and anti-Zionist, believing that capitalism and socialism are modern Jewish inventions that destroyed a medieval "utopia." For some reason, these people seem to think that the "new testament" contains a precise blueprint for governing society when it doesn't. Such a blueprint exists in G-d's TORAH, which too many rightwing non-capitalist chr*stians are totally ignorant of as they mouth idiocies about "Talmudic evil." Will this ever change? Well yes, when Mashiach comes. But unfortunately the anti-Semitism of the advocates of rightwing alternatives to capitalism drives many decent people into the social Darwinist camp. But all the anti-Semitism of these people cannot discredit G-d's Torah. I hope and pray that we can roll back the forces of G-dlessness without instituting a society based on forces just as materialistic and just as G-dless.

For the record, although my own life is lived on the edge I refuse to vote for a liberal Democrat. I absolutely refuse to do so. It turns my stomach to here the candidates I vote for trying to appeal to me by promising not to raise my taxes (I'm too poor to pay anything other than sales taxes) and fulminating about "lazy people" who I suppose they think they should be starving. But I'm not a conservative because of my slim pocketbook.

G-dly conservative people must be appealed to on the inevitable problems and sufferings that befall people in all societies this side of the Kingdom of G-d. Such concerns must never become a monopoly of the G-dless party. But G-d help me how my stomach twists when in the midst of a society worshipping Molokh (mach shemo) I hear so much talk about money and "lazy" people who aren't being eliminated fast enough by the laws of economic Darwinism.

75 posted on 11/12/2004 8:44:01 AM PST by Zionist Conspirator (G-D'S TORAH defines conservatism.)
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