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To: redgolum
C.S. Lewis once commented that a truly Christian society would be more conservative and more liberal than we have today. Personally I don't know. The materialism of the West has infected America, but the instituialism of the Socialists is not the answer either.

The way I read it, Lewis basically said if the early chr*stians had created a state it would have been a socialist state with very prudish morals. How ironic that because of today's political alliances an economic doctrine has been confused with a moral/religious one.

The pattern I would recommend is the one outlined in the Torah for when Israel conquered its land. There was a very complex system in which the land was divided by lot and allotted to tribes and families. Then on top of this were the laws of shemittah ("sabbatical" year) and yovel ("jubilee"). The amazing thing is how this Land was thus divided up for all time to an immigrant people. Too bad we didn't do this when we first came to this country.

Of course, Noachide law is not the same as the halakhah for Jews. While I assume non-Jews would be free to set up their societies in this way, they would not be required to do so. The main doctrine of rightwing Catholic "pre-capitalist socialism" is a rejection of the concept of interest which is considered "usury." But the thing is, interest charged on a loan is no more "theft" than the money charged for any item or service. Jews are forbidden to charge interest to each other but are permitted to charge interest (or pay interest) to non-Jews. If interest were inherently immoral they would not be allowed to do this. The commandment against interest among Jews is (as I read recently) not the forbidding of a crime that may be committed against others, but rather a form of compulsory benevolence that need not be extended to outsiders.

I believe that non-Jewish societies would be within their halakhic rights to forbid interest provided that they did not attribute the law to G-d Himself (which would be "adding to the Torah") and provided they did not apply the injunction against Jews, whom the Torah expressly permits to charge non-Jews and one of whose rewards for Torah obedience is to be "loaners" to the nations and not "borrowers" from them. (Plus, banking helps the economy grow and makes social mobility possible, if not certain.) But I am not a poseq. This is something that the Rabbis and a coming generation of learned Noachid poseqim will have to hash out.

106 posted on 11/12/2004 12:48:22 PM PST by Zionist Conspirator (G-D'S TORAH defines conservatism.)
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To: Zionist Conspirator
The charging of interest (usury), is something that is historically resent. Even in Rome, one of Julias Cesar's many acts was to limit interest to 10% simple interest. Compound interest was condemned rather widely in the past.

What you described for a banking system would be a good one except for one thing. That was what Medieval Europe had (where only the Jewish bankers and a small group of others) could charge interest. It helped fuel the fires that caused the pogroms that killed some many Jews in that time, and even today you can hear someone saying "The Jews control the banks!" (Which is kind of silly, most banks in the US are run by WASP's.)
111 posted on 11/12/2004 1:35:40 PM PST by redgolum (Molon labe)
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