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Has Darwin Become Dogma?
To The Source ^ | Nov. 10, 2004 | Dr. Benjamin Wiker

Posted on 11/11/2004 3:44:08 AM PST by Lindykim

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To: VadeRetro
Because he can.

My male was fixed before I got him, so around here we're all spared the indignity of observing that, ah ... joyous activity. But for those dogs who are intact, I guess that they, in their own way, give thanks to the Intelligent Designer.

161 posted on 11/11/2004 2:13:31 PM PST by PatrickHenry (Hic amor, haec patria est.)
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To: JeffAtlanta
You didn't direct this at me but I did check your work and it was wrong. Either you have a children's version of the American Heritage dictionary or you just made up your research.

Typical evolutionist snobbery. You can't find it therefore it doesn't exist. No wonder you are losing the battle.

I'll accept your admission of error at your earliest convenience.
162 posted on 11/11/2004 2:16:41 PM PST by Dataman
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To: Jim Noble; wildandcrazyrussian; Lindykim
Natural selection to explain interspecies variation has indeed become dogma.

I regret to inform you that calling it names does not make the mountains of evidence for it go away.

If it were a theory, it should be debatable and testable.

It is a theory, it is debatable (and has been, endlessly), and it is testable. Unfortunately for the anti-evolutionists, it has passed countless tests with flying colors.

Where on Earth did you get the mistaken impression that it's not? Hint: You really ought to try reading more than just the creationist "literature".

Cellular evolution is demonstrable by simple high school experiments. Intraspecies variation from environmental pressure (the finches) is likewise trivial to demonstrate.

Fine so far.

Interspecies mutational change driven by environment, OTOH, lacks both a biologically plausible mechanism AND physical evidence that it has ever happened.

Oh dear, you've been reading the creationists instead of the science journals, I see.

There most certainly are "biologically plausible" mechanisms, *and* massive amounts of physical evidence that it has indeed happened. What have you been smoking?

This, of course, does not falsify it. But it DOES make its enthronement as dogma unscientific.

Well, since all of your premises are wrong, so is your conclusion. Care to try again?

163 posted on 11/11/2004 2:23:55 PM PST by Ichneumon ("...she might as well have been a space alien." - Bill Clinton, on Hillary, "My Life", p. 182)
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To: wideawake

Hopeless. You didn't win the argument. You just think you did. I never lie, btw. Accusing someone of lying should be backed up by some facts.


164 posted on 11/11/2004 2:26:07 PM PST by shubi
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To: Right in Wisconsin

You have been reading Ken Ham too much. Kind is not a biological term.


165 posted on 11/11/2004 2:28:31 PM PST by shubi
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To: Dataman
I'll accept your admission of error at your earliest convenience.

BWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHA!

How about the 3000 admissions/apologies/corrections you owe the rest of the readers? And probably yourself...

166 posted on 11/11/2004 2:29:06 PM PST by balrog666 (Lack of money is the root of all evil.)
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To: Right in Wisconsin

Our eye is backwards and has a big blind spot. That's how I know God didn't design it.

It is clear to me that He did create everything by creating primordial energy. "Let there be light" Einstein's E=mc2
agrees with this. However, this has nothing to do with biological evolution or Darwin's Theory.


167 posted on 11/11/2004 2:31:27 PM PST by shubi
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To: Dataman

Darwin did not know about Mendel's work until after he published. Darwin predicted the genetic mechanism without knowing about it. Pretty good, eh?
LOL


168 posted on 11/11/2004 2:34:29 PM PST by shubi
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To: VadeRetro
LMAO
169 posted on 11/11/2004 2:36:21 PM PST by shubi
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To: shubi

You just don't get it, do you?


170 posted on 11/11/2004 2:38:40 PM PST by Right in Wisconsin
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To: Dataman
I'll accept your admission of error at your earliest convenience.

No errors were made. You cited your source as the American Heritage dictionary. I just went to the American Heritage site and looked up 'theory'. Here is the link: http://www.bartleby.com/61/20/T0152000.html . You must be using a children's version because it doesn't have the simplistic definitions that you just listed.

Regardless, why would you apply definition #4 (“An assumption or guess”) of your source to the theory of evolution rather than definition #1 (“A statement or set of statements designed to explain a phenomenon or class of phenomena”)? Its already been explained to you what the word ‘theory’ means in a scientific context.

I'm still waiting for some of the intellectually honest creationists to step in and correct Dataman on this point.
171 posted on 11/11/2004 2:43:09 PM PST by JeffAtlanta
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To: Right in Wisconsin

I get that your understanding of Biology is sadly lacking.


172 posted on 11/11/2004 2:48:32 PM PST by shubi
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To: JeffAtlanta
I'm still waiting for some of the intellectually honest creationists to step in and correct Dataman on this point.

Do you think there may be such a beast?

173 posted on 11/11/2004 2:52:16 PM PST by balrog666 (Lack of money is the root of all evil.)
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To: JeffAtlanta
I'm still waiting for some of the intellectually honest creationists to step in and correct Dataman on this point.

I am still waiting for the logical evolutionist to assist you in understanding that theory has more than one meaning.

Regardless, why would you apply definition #4 (“An assumption or guess”)

Because that is exactly what evolution is. For the sake of argument, use any of the four definitions. That still does not change the fact that evolution is unobserved, unrepeatable, unverifiable, contradictory and systematically discontinuous.

174 posted on 11/11/2004 3:00:22 PM PST by Dataman
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To: IonInsights

snip....Has Darwin become dogma?

IonInsights, heavy into wishful thinking, responds....."No, scientific fact."


Yes of course, IonInsights, and it's also a fact that Superman really does fly.


175 posted on 11/11/2004 3:00:22 PM PST by Lindykim
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To: Dataman
Music Theory = 4. An assumption or guess.

Evolution Theory = 4. An assumption or guess.

Oh, I get it.

176 posted on 11/11/2004 3:04:12 PM PST by narby (WE are now the Mainstream - Enjoy)
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To: JeffAtlanta
Regardless, why would you apply definition #4 (“An assumption or guess”) of your source to the theory of evolution rather than definition #1 (“A statement or set of statements designed to explain a phenomenon or class of phenomena”)?

Typical Creationist that has his mind made up and searches until he finds some thread of evidence to "prove" it. He knows full well that the appropriate definition is #1. Why he thinks he can get away with #4 is a mystery to me.

These people are as bad for Republican political efforts as the Gay Marriage people are for the Dems. Both are unreasonable and will damage their own long term interests rather than take a reasonable approach.

Pure ego, I guess.

It's like the slow drivers in the mountains here in Arizona that won't pull over like the sign says they must to let faster cars pass. They're in front, and they just like to p#ss people off because they can.

Just like the dog can lick .....

177 posted on 11/11/2004 3:15:31 PM PST by narby (WE are now the Mainstream - Enjoy)
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To: All
Stop it!!! Just Stop It !! Agree to disagree already. These Threads are a cancer.
"Well I'm smarter than you because blah Blah Blah....."
"Well I'm holier than you because blah blah blah....."
No one here is apt to change anyone else's mind so just quit it!
178 posted on 11/11/2004 3:15:41 PM PST by The Mike Device (10 Megatons of fusion fun.)
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To: Dataman
I am still waiting for the logical evolutionist to assist you in understanding that theory has more than one meaning.

Not in this context. Its been explained to you many times what the word theory means in a scientific context. In the same way, the words 'energy', 'power' and 'work' have many definitions, but in a scientific context they each have only one precise definition. Also, while the 'law' may have several definitions, there is only one accepted definition in a scientific context. Common usage definitions for the same words have no relevance.

That still does not change the fact that evolution is unobserved, unrepeatable, unverifiable, contradictory and systematically discontinuous.

Completely untrue. In fact, that list is what makes evolution a 'theory' rather than a hypothesis. Evolution is observed everyday in antibiotic resistant bacteria and pesticide resistant insects. These observations are very repeatable and verifiable.
179 posted on 11/11/2004 3:17:11 PM PST by JeffAtlanta
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To: Dataman

theory (thEEuh-rEE)

noun: plural: theories.
1. A statement or set of statements designed to explain a phenomenon or
class of phenomena.
2. A set of rules or principles designed for the study or practice of an
art or discipline.
3. Abstract thought untested in practice.
4. An assumption or guess.
[< Greek theoria.]
--theoretical (-reti-kuhl) --adjective
--theoretically --adverb



Does this look right in your mind?


180 posted on 11/11/2004 3:34:30 PM PST by js1138 (D*mn, I Missed!)
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