Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

The Killers - The Dutch Hit Crisis Point
National Review Online ^ | 11/10/2004 | Michael Ledeen

Posted on 11/10/2004 2:14:55 PM PST by Syco

click here to read article


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-2021-4041-52 last
To: PeterFinn
How are you ever going to fight a war when you can't even identify the enemy? This "kill em all and let God sort em out" crap sounds just like the terrorists.

Militant Muslims are the enemy, not all Muslims. There are Muslims today fighting beside our Marines in Iraq trying to bring peace and democracy to their country. For the last 3 years, there have been Muslims fighting beside our troops in Afghanistan trying to bring peace and democracy to their people.

Figure out who the enemy is.

41 posted on 11/10/2004 8:52:31 PM PST by McGavin999 (George Soros just learned a very expensive lesson-America can't be bought.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 31 | View Replies]

To: trashcanbred
NONE of us want to HURT ANYBODY!

---But, we have a PROBLEM!!---

There are HUNDREDS of "Islamofascists" who "GET OFF'" on MURDERING us "Non-Muslims!!"

OUR PROBLEM IS,--that there are Tens of Thousands of Purportedly Peaceful Muslims who "CATAGORICALLY REFUSE" to tell "Legitimate, Properly Authenticated, Fully Trained 'Muslim AUTHORITIES'" WHO the "Rebels are!!"

"Islamic Tribal Custom" has ALLOWED "Cousins & Distant Relatives" to MURDER INNOCENTS.

The Killing of "Innocents" MUST STOP!!

The "Iraqi People" are being GIVEN a "Way Out!!"

America has given the "Iraqi People" a "Shot at a Level 'Playing Field!!'"

Despite our BEST EFFORTS, IF the "People of Iraq" are INCAPABLE OF "EMBRACING the FREEDOM WE HAVE GIVEN THEM,"--we OWE THEM NOTHING!!

There are MANY who Deserve Our Help to be Free Nations; "Iraq" is only One!! ,

Doc

42 posted on 11/10/2004 10:31:29 PM PST by Doc On The Bay
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 26 | View Replies]

To: txflake

Yes it is. No disagreement there.


43 posted on 11/11/2004 5:34:06 AM PST by trashcanbred (Anti-social and anti-socialist)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 32 | View Replies]

To: PeterFinn

You have in essence declared me some sort of Dhimmi but I can assure you that if some nitwit came and declared we live under Sharia law I would be the first to pull the trigger on the SOB.

My point to you is that I have known muslims who do not live nor abide by any of this. I have known Turkish muslims, Chinese muslims and even Paraguayan muslims who I consider some of the nicest people I have ever met. Do you plan to kill them too?

Do you also intend destroy Turkey, who has been a staunch ally in most of the wars of the 20th century we have been in?

Before you start planning your own Kristallnacht and "Final solution" on these people you had better understand this isn't 1930's Germany. Unlike the germans, Americans are not going to sit back and watch you "round em up into the railcars."

And before you respond that I am trying to live in some socialist utopian Euroweeny dream think again bub. I am talking about people who came here to make money... to live the same American dream that I live. That isn't a socialist dream... it is a capitalist one... and one I know works.


44 posted on 11/11/2004 5:49:03 AM PST by trashcanbred (Anti-social and anti-socialist)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 31 | View Replies]

To: Doc On The Bay

I NEVER said WE didn't HAVE a PROBLEM with THE ISLAMOFASCISTS.... I AGREE KILL THEM ALL...

But if you think all muslims are islamofascists then you are plain wrong.


45 posted on 11/11/2004 5:50:23 AM PST by trashcanbred (Anti-social and anti-socialist)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 42 | View Replies]

To: trashcanbred

I don't REALLY have a "kill them all" mentality.
It is just so frustrating to know that SO MANY and I would dare say the MAJORITY of Muslims have that attitute about Christians and Jews.

I DO think we need a STRICT immigration policy in this country and some SERIOUS profiling at all our airports (to HECK with being politically correct).


46 posted on 11/11/2004 5:50:30 AM PST by Muzzle_em
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 30 | View Replies]

To: Muzzle_em

I think a large number of "Arab" muslims do hate us. I could not argue with you on this point. But I have known some non-Arab muslims and they are some of the nicest people I have come to know in my life.

So when someone posts the "kill em all" statements I am gonna get mad.



47 posted on 11/11/2004 6:02:17 AM PST by trashcanbred (Anti-social and anti-socialist)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 46 | View Replies]

To: Syco

International reaction to Arafat's death




Associated Press, THE JERUSALEM POST Nov. 11, 2004




UN: UN Secretary-General Kofi Annan said Arafat had "expressed and symbolized in his person the national aspirations of the Palestinian people."

At the United Nations headquarters in New York, the United Nations' flag has been flying at half mast.

The EUROPEAN UNION praised Yasser Arafat on Thursday for his "single-minded commitment" to the Palestinian cause and pledged to work with the new Palestinian leadership to find peace in the Middle East.

"Although he has not lived to see the birth of a Palestinian state, we will work with the Palestinian authorities and the international community to contribute to realizing the aspirations of the Palestinian people," said a statement on behalf of the EU from Dutch Foreign Minister Ben Bot.

UNITED KINGDOM: Prime Minister Tony Blair expressed condolences Thursday following the death of Yasser Arafat, saying the Palestinian leader "came to symbolize the Palestinian national movement."

"He won a Nobel Peace Prize in 1994 jointly with Yitzhak Rabin in recognition of their efforts to achieve peace in the Middle East. He led his people to an historic acceptance and the need for a two-state solution," Blair said in a statement, according to a spokeswoman for his office.

"That goal of a viable Palestinian state alongside a secure Israel is one that we must continue to work tirelessly to achieve. Peace in the Middle East must be the international community's highest priority. We will do whatever we can, working with the US and the EU, to help the parties reach a fair and durable settlement.

"I would like to express my condolences to the family of President Arafat and to the Palestinian people," the prime minister said.

British Foreign Minister Jack Straw said, "Such a towering figure in the Middle East, its hard to imagine the Middle East or the world without him."

"The best tribute to Arafat is to be faithful to the roadmap," he added.

GERMANY: German Chancellor Gerhard Schroeder offered his condolences Thursday on the death of Yasser Arafat, describing it as a "great loss" to the Palestinian people.

"Yasser Arafat strove during his lifetime to lead the Palestinians to independence and establish a sovereign, viable Palestinian state," Schroeder wrote in a message to Palestinian Prime Minister Ahmed Qureia. "It was not granted to Yasser Arafat to complete his life's work."

Schroeder expressed Germany's condolences on "the great loss that the Palestinian people have suffered."

His foreign minister, Joschka Fischer called for an orderly transfer of power, adding that "a leadership legitimized by swift elections which remains committed to a just peace settlement is of central significance."

"Yasser Arafat's life stands for the varied and tragic history of the Palestinian people and the Middle East as a whole," Fischer said in a statement. "In it were reflected many people's hopes for peace, but time and again also their disappointments and setbacks."

Fischer told reporters that he would attend Arafat's funeral.

FRANCE: "With him disappears the man of courage and conviction who, for 40 years, has incarnated the Palestinians' combat for recognition of their national rights," said French President Jacques Chirac, whose nation hosted the Palestinian leader in his dying days. "May the loss that they have just suffered unite the Palestinians."

b>BELGIUM: Belgium sent condolences to the Palestinians on the death of Yasser Arafat on Thursday, calling on all leaders to renew their support of the road map peace plan for the Middle East.

"With President Arafat, it is not only the first elected president of the Palestinian Authority who has passed away. The Palestinian People have also lost a historic figure," said a statement from Prime Minister Guy Verhofstadt and Foreign Minister Karel De Gucht.

They expressed "strong hope that all leaders and all communities will work with a renewed and unconditional commitment to implement the road map, which should lead to Israeli and Palestinian states where the two peoples can coexist in security."

THE NETHERLANDS: The Netherlands holds the EU's rotating presidency.

Bot conveyed the EU's "profound condolences" to Arafat's wife and family and the Palestinian people.

"In him the Palestinian people, both within and outside the Palestinian Territories, have lost an historic leader and a democratically elected president, whose devotion and single-minded commitment to the Palestinian national cause throughout his life was never in doubt," said Bot's statement.

Bot commended the Palestinian leadership for "their demonstration of responsibility to maintain the functioning of Palestinian institutions in this difficult time."

He urged "the Palestinian people to gather behind its leadership and stressed that they may be assured of the undiminished support of the European Union on the path towards a peaceful, durable and just settlement of the conflict, which both they and the people of Israel so richly deserve."

Italy: Italian premier Silvio Berlusconi offered condolences for Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat's death on Thursday and expressed hope that Palestinians will work peacefully to achieve statehood.

With Arafat's death, "the Palestinian people have lost a symbol of the aspiration to assert their own national identity," Berlusconi said in a statement.

"We hope that all Palestinians will peacefully commit themselves to bringing about the objective of two states, their own and Israel, living side by side in safety, freedom and social development," he said.

IRELAND: Irish Foreign Minister Dermot Ahern said it was "tragic" that Arafat did not live to see an independent Palestinian state. "We're very impressed with the Palestinian leadership over recent weeks. They have upheld the rule of law within Palestine," Ahern said.

RUSSIA: President Vladimir Putin praised Yasser Arafat on Thursday as "an influential political figure on an international scale."

"It is a heavy loss for the Palestinian leadership, and all Palestinians," Putin said in a statement released by the Kremlin.

He said that Arafat had "dedicated his life to the Palestinian people's just cause, the fight for their inalienable right to crate an independent state, which would coexist with Israel within recognized and secure borders."

Putin credited Arafat with "strengthening friendly relations between Russia and Palestine."

Russian Orthodox Patriarch Alexy II expressed condolences following the death if Arafat, who he said "had waged a struggle for decades to uphold the national interests of the Arab people of Palestine," the ITAR-Tass news agency reported.

Russia called for the international community, Israel and the Palestinians to redouble efforts to bring peace. The Interfax news agency quoted Russia's Mideast envoy, Alexander Kalugin, as saying it was necessary to take the peace process out of the "dead end" and encourage Israel and the Palestinians "to resume a substantive dialogue."

CHINA: Chinese President Hu Jintao described Arafat as "an outstanding leader of the Palestinian cause and ... an outstanding politician."

Arafat "devoted his whole life to the just cause of resuming the legitimate national rights of the Palestinian people," Hu said in a statement. "He was deeply respected and supported by the Palestinian people and enjoyed great prestige among the international community."

JAPAN: Japanese Prime Minister Junichiro Koizumi called Arafat "a pioneer who had laid out the foundation for the establishment of a Palestinian state."

"I sincerely hope the Palestinians overcome their sorrow and continue with their effort toward achieving peace and prosperity in the region," Koizumi said in a statement.

INDIA: India's President A. P. J. Abdul Kalam said Arafat was an "enduring symbol of Palestine nationhood (who) selflessly devoted his life to Palestinian people."

AUSTRALIA: History will judge Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat harshly because of his failure to embrace a proposed peace deal with Israel, Australian Prime Minister John Howard said Thursday.

Speaking just hours before Arafat's death was announced, Howard said Arafat could have helped secure peace in the Middle East if he had accepted the deal during U.S. President Bill Clinton's second term in office.

"I think history will judge him very harshly for not having seized the opportunity in the year 2000 to embrace the offer that was very courageously made by the then-Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Barak, which involved the Israelis agreeing to about 90 percent of what the Palestinians had wanted," Howard told Melbourne radio 3AW early Thursday.

"I think if Arafat had grabbed hold of that opportunity in the dying days of the Clinton administration then the path of things in the Middle East may have been smoother."

Howard said he also found it hard to believe that Arafat could not have done more to restrain the activities of terrorist organizations.

Earlier this week, the prime minister also ruled out attending Arafat's funeral, saying an Australian government representative would go instead.

NEW ZEALAND: Foreign Minister Phil Goff said Arafat, though seen by many in the West as deeply flawed, "symbolized Palestinians' long search for statehood and independence."

"His achievement was to win acknowledgment for the existence of the Palestinian nation and to advocate for the rights of a dispossessed and disadvantaged people," Goff said in a statement.

He added that Arafat's failure was "to not make the transition from resistance leader to statesman."

Goff said that in the end Arafat lacked the authority or will to finalize a peace settlement, "a failure he shares with the Israeli government."

MALAYSIA: Malaysia described the death of Yasser Arafat as a "terrible loss" for Palestinians but urged them to unite in striving for an independent homeland to honor Arafat's lifelong crusade.

Foreign Minister Syed Hamid Albar described Arafat as "a great leader who dedicated his life to defend the rights of his fellow Palestinians."

"It is a terrible loss as he had long been a beacon of hope for Palestinians in their struggle to live with dignity," Syed Hamid told The Associated Press.

"I urge all Palestinians to honor Arafat by discarding their differences in striving for an independent homeland where their can live in peace and with dignity."

Syed Hamid said Malaysia which is chairman of the 57-member Organization of the Islamic Conference, also hoped that the United States "would not have any more excuses" in pushing forward the peace process and ending the Palestinian-Israeli conflict.

"We must keep the peace process on track and not waste time with mere rhetoric," Syed Hamid said. "The Palestinians have suffered long enough and now is the time to ensure justice for them."

Malaysian Prime Minister Abdullah Ahmad Badawi, speaking on behalf of the OIC and NAM, said the road map for peace in the Middle East which is sponsored by the United Nations, the United States, the European Union and Russia must be implemented despite Arafat's death.

"Yasser Arafat will be forever remembered ... by people from all parts of the world for his courage and determination against all odds in championing and protecting the inalienable of the people of Palestine," Abdullah said in a statement.

Abdullah said Arafat's legacy and fighting spirit "would continue to inspire Palestinians and those who share the cause of Palestine."

INDONESIA: Foreign Ministry spokesman Marty Natalegawa of Indonesia, the world's most populous Muslim nation, lauded Arafat as a "hero to us all."

"He was the ultimate embodiment of decades of the just struggle of a nation for its undeniable rights to self determination," Natalegawa said. "We share in this great loss and we fervently hope that it will translate into renewed momentum for the attainment of freedom, eternal peace and prosperity for the Palestinian people in their own country."

AFGHANISTAN: Afghan President Hamid Karzai on Thursday lauded late Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat as a courageous champion of peace in the Middle East and urged his successors to carry forward that legacy.

"Mr. Arafat was a great personality, whose courage and leadership was respected worldwide for well over half a century," Karzai said in a statement.

"He dedicated his life to the Palestinian people and their cause, and strove to achieve lasting peace in the Middle East.

"While his absence will undoubtedly be felt strongly, I hope that a new generation of leaders will emerge to take forward the cause of peace and stability in the Middle East," Karzai said.

It was unclear if the Afghan leader would attend a military funeral planned in the Egyptian capital Cairo on Friday.

PAKISTAN: Pakistan said Yasser Arafat's death was a "great loss" for the Palestinian people whose grief Pakistanis shared.

"With the demise of this great leader, an era has come to an end," President Gen. Pervez Musharraf was quoted as saying in an official statement Thursday. He said Arafat's "legacy will continue to inspire future generations."

Pakistan will continue backing Palestinians in their demand for a homeland, Musharraf said.

Arafat died Thursday at age 75, after spending his final days in a coma at a French military hospital outside Paris.

There is a strong popular support for the Palestinian cause in Pakistan, a Muslim nation with no diplomatic ties with Israel.

Radical Islamic groups in the country often denounce the Jewish state for its military operations against Palestinian terrorists.

Earlier, Information Minister Sheikh Rashid Ahmed said Arafat's death was a "great loss" for the Palestinian people.

"We share the Palestinians' sorrow and every Pakistani is grieved over Yasser Arafat's death," Ahmed told The Associated Press from Saudi Arabia, where he was on a private visit to perform Umra, an Islamic pilgrimage to Mecca.

"Yasser Arafat spent his entire life for the Palestinian cause. We pray that his mission is completed after his death," said Ahmed, who is the chief government spokesman.

EGYPT: On the sleepy streets of Cairo, in the angry camps of Lebanon and at the White House, there was a sense that however his life was judged, Yasser Arafat's death was a solemn and historic moment.

Egypt, which was to give Arafat a state funeral on Friday, Yemen and Jordan announced three days' mourning. State-run Jordan radio and television replaced regular programming with recitations of Quranic versus interrupted only by hourly news bulletins.

"We have known him as a defender of right and a struggler against occupation, and striving toward peace," Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak said of Arafat as he opened a session of parliament.

While Arafat claimed he was born in Jerusalem, researcher's say his birthplace was Cairo, where he went to university and where his PLO was founded.

Iran: Iran on Thursday offered rare praise for Yasser Arafat, calling him a defender of the Palestinian people, and said his efforts for Palestinian rights should be clear to all.

The comments, issued by the Iranian Cabinet, were a far cry from Iranian supreme leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei's criticism of Arafat in 1998, when he described him as "shameless" and a "traitor."

Khamenei, who has the final say on all state matters, denounced Arafat in 1998 for signing an accord with Israel promising to crack down on Islamic terrorists in exchange for a withdrawal of Israeli troops from part of the West Bank.

Khamenei made no comments following Arafat's death on Thursday.

Iran's Foreign Minister Kamal Kharrazi is scheduled to attend the funeral ceremonies for Arafat in Cairo, Egypt, according to state-run television.

ARAB LEAGUE spokesman Hossam Zaki eulogized Arafat as "an extraordinary man, the personification of the Palestinian issue." "He was a man with a cause, and he carried it in his heart everywhere," Zaki added.

AFRICA: "The African National Congress and the Palestinian Liberation Army have come a long way together. The president and Yasser Arafat were also very close and his death has touched the president personally," Presidential Spokesperson Khumalo said.

THE VATICAN: The Vatican offered its condolences Thursday on the death of Yasser Arafat, calling him a leader of "great charisma" and expressing hope that the time had come for Israel and the Palestinians to live in peace, in two independent states.

Pope John Paul II has long supported Palestinian rights to a homeland and stood by Arafat when Israel and the United States considered him a terrorist or an ineffectual or unreliable peace partner.

The Vatican "joins the grief of the Palestinian people over the death of Yasser Arafat," Vatican spokesman Joaquin Navarro-Valls said.

Arafat was "a leader of great charisma who loved his people and sought to guide them toward national independence," Navarro-Valls said.

"May God in his pity receive the soul of (Arafat) and concede peace to the Holy Land with two independent and sovereign states, wholly reconciled," he said.

John Paul received Arafat for the first time in 1982 amid protests from Israel and the worldwide Jewish community. Since that Vatican audience, the two men have met another 10 times.

The pope made his long-sought pilgrimage to the Holy Land in 2000, just a few months before the Palestinian uprising that followed the breakdown in the Camp David peace talks.

In a stop in Bethlehem, the pope kissed a golden bowl of Palestinian soil - one of several gestures the Palestinians saw as recognition of their dreams for statehood. As Arafat looked on, the pontiff proclaimed Palestinians' "natural right to a homeland."

The Vatican maintains what it calls "relations of a special nature" with the Palestine Liberation Organization. Under John Paul, the Vatican established full diplomatic relations with Israel.


48 posted on 11/11/2004 6:04:33 AM PST by geros
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: McGavin999; trashcanbred

Okay...one more time.

"If we have to"

One of the big problems both of you have is that for all your Muslim friends you still do not understand their mindset. Their conceptual view of thew world is radically different from yours. I work with perfectly rational, reasonable people at one of the world's top ten corporations where PC is the rule of the day. My Muslim coworkers are easy to work with. They even talk nicely. One of them told me how he wanted peace in Israel but if that meant killing all the Jews then 'Ins'h a'lah.' (It is God's Will).

This really nice guy proposed genocide.

Dig deep with your Muslim friends and you'll find the same thing waiting for you.

Do I WANT to see them all destroyed? No, of course not. I'd rather we be able to invest in roads, schools, and infrastructure in this country then to have to finance a war machine.

But, and I again repeat this: we do not control what the Muslims do. You see only a war that started a couple of years ago. Muslims are fighting a war that stretches back centuries. Ask them what they think of the Crusades, where they faced Christian resistance to their invasions of formerly Christian lands. Watch their eyes and tell me you are not afraid.

And again, if they declare peace I'd be a happy guy.

Historically, and according to the Qu'ran, when they declare peace they usually do so to calm their enemy just before they strike.

But why take it from me? I recommend that since you two know so much about Islam you read the Qu'ran as I have and learn what makes them tick. Even the extreme parts of the Qu'ran are a pillar of faith to a Muslim.

There are Sunni and there are Shi'a, but they are all of The Book and they are all as One when the sun sets in the west.

And again, if they declare peace I'd be a happy guy. Send me an email when that happens, okay?


49 posted on 11/11/2004 8:04:06 AM PST by PeterFinn ("Tolerance" means WE have to tolerate THEM, they can hate us all they want.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 41 | View Replies]

To: PeterFinn

Are they Arab Muslims who you work with? Most likely they are. I don't doubt you for a second. I suppose the difference is that the muslims I speak of are not Arab. Far from it as a matter of fact.


50 posted on 11/11/2004 8:09:48 AM PST by trashcanbred (Anti-social and anti-socialist)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 49 | View Replies]

To: Brilliant
There will have to be a lot more death before the Europeans come to their senses.

And there will be.

51 posted on 11/11/2004 8:12:16 AM PST by P-Marlowe
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: trashcanbred

Most of our Muslims are Malaysians from the Penang area - which is 'liberal' by their standards. We also have Pakistanis, but no Arabs that I have ever met.

The Pakistani fellow is the one who non-chalantly comtemplates the genocide of the Jews. He's said other jaw-droppers and I'd repeat them but I had hard time believing them when he said them. Like I said, the guy is really nice, but you scratch the surface and there's a nascent jihadi underneath.

The Malaysians are much more cuddly, but when it comes to the discussion of Buddhists or Hindus they get kind of scary. Christians are not on their radar screen since there are not so many over there.

My Hindu coworkers utterly seethe with bloodlust hatred toward Muslims over the loss of Pakistan to the Muslims. Pakistan was once a province of India and the British partitioned it off to the Muslims in 1947-49.

My friend, knowing these people as I do I do not see peace happening any time soon. The Muslims believe they have an Edict from Al'lah to rule the world and we are in their way. They do not understand why we do not embrace the Prophet and His Truth and, therefore, we are infidels unworthy of life. Very perversely, our closest ally among the Muslims is the House of Saud and it is they who finance most jihadis.

But, if you read the Qu'ran you'll see that this makes perfect sense to them and you'll also see why most Arabs have no problem with their alliance with infidels, too.

Have a great day.


52 posted on 11/11/2004 8:44:36 AM PST by PeterFinn ("Tolerance" means WE have to tolerate THEM, they can hate us all they want.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 50 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-2021-4041-52 last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson