The Antiwar Right Is Ready to Rumble

NY TIMES ^ | 11/8/04 | Kirkpatrick

[vampire2191]

The War on Terror is not a war of choice and, if we are to win, then the war must be fought in Iran, too. Or...we can declare victory, get out and let our children and grandchildren deal with it, possibly here.

[Capriole]

Wow, Grover actually converted to Islam? I didn't know that! How bizarre.

[Boot Hill]

"So, do you have a point that counters any of mine?"

From what I've read of your posts on this thread, I find nothing to disagree with, only support. You may find that support a little strange coming from me, but I calls 'em as I sees 'em. (And unless you're trying to come on to me, the name is Boot Hill or maybe even Boot, but never "Bootie".)

--Boot Hill

[arasina]

I will allow you the last word since it seems so very important to you. :o)

[lancer]

I wasn't there at the conversion, but I have read that he is muslim. For a lengthy history of his activities, see this.

[lancer]

And this one.

[ladyinred]

Don Simmons, BRAVO for your post.
I totally agree with you, and thank you for telling it like it is.

[Capriole]

I am shocked. I have friends who work with Grover on different business projects. I will warn them. Thank you for the help; we truly did not know.

[ladyinred]

You need to visit unAmerican nonConservative, pat buchanan's site. They post all the anti-American BS there. They're even posting the BS from our ald freeper justine raimondo, the anti-war hero who cheered on 9/11.

Thanks, I had no idea. Where have I been? And to think I once voted for Pat in the primaries.

[ninenot]

If you want knee-jerk "Commie/leftie/Kerry supporter" reaction, go to an economics forum and state that FreeTrade is going to kill the industrial US.

Seems that intelligent discussion of GWB's policies (some of which are REALLY discuss-able) implies that one is a traitor.

[ninenot]

The anti-war paleocons lost last Tuesday

Reducing the election results to "anti-war" or "pro-morals" is preposterous and beneath your usual intellectual capability.

In Wisconsin, a very conservative Republican challenger lost to a 100%-A1-lefty (US Senate.) There are other races around the country in which the pro-Bush candidate lost, even in States which went 'red.'

GWB was a weak candidate (although a good guy, not a typical pol.)

Kerry was worse than Bush, and it was the lies that sank him.

[ninenot]

kill the bad guys, then get out --

IN theory, your program is perfect.

In war, there's a small problem: the goblins don't wear signs.

However, we sure don't want to hang around too long in that stinking desert.

[ninenot]

I believe we will withdraw to our bases & let the Iraqis fight it out for control of their internal politics, -- if we are smart.

Agreed that this is a good plan--along with intensive patrolling of the petroleum infrastructure. IIRC, GWB told us that the oil revs would pay back the US taxpayer investment in that godforsaken country.

[ninenot]

anti-terror campaign

Glad you brought up the distinction between "building democracy" and wiping out terrorists--and I hope you understand the difference.

[sinkspur]

GWB was a weak candidate (although a good guy, not a typical pol.)

A "weak" candidate who got 61 million votes.

There is no question that paleos of every stripe got whacked on Nov. 2. The anti-war, anti-free-trade, isolationist fringe has been replaced by the socially, but foreign-policy-muscular, conservatives.

Moral values may have been important to those who voted for Bush, but support for his way of dealing with terrorism was given a massive stamp of approval.

Kerry was viewed as weak on terror, which is what sank him. I don't think any Democrat could have won this election.

[ninenot]

They'd argue the war is ultimately to make the US safer

Putting the NeoCons squarely in the same bed as was Big Brother in 1984.

[ninenot]

The Iraq War is about much more than "democracy" and it's certainly not about anything "altruistic" or the spreading of "Americanism"....or anything like that.

Evidently you missed ALL of GWB's stump speeches.

Agreed, we took out a terrorist-supporter w/Hussein. Agreed, we are taking out a bunch of Islamofascists in Fallujah and other garden spots.

But GWB's rhetoric was all about 'freedom' for the Iraqi citizens.

Don't try to argue otherwise.

[ninenot]

the American People, who are still very much Wilsonian in their views.

I think you mis-overestimate the "Wilsonianism" in the US.

Wilson was a blathering idiot--maybe you recall the League of Nations?

If you don't it's just as well. Like its Wilsonian successor, it's better off dead.

[ninenot]

It could be argued that the 100% lefty wacko who won the Wisconsin Senate race won SOLELY because he voted against PNTR/China and against NAFTA.

All the other factors were equal--but the wacko got a hell of a lot of otherwise-(R) votes. I poll-watched in a very safe (R) precinct; the Sen candidate ran about 10% behind GWB.

[ninenot]

So your thesis that "FreeTrade" is a boon to GWB is a crock.

I think that the issue (which is intertwined with GWB's flaccidity on the illegals) will continue to be significant, and although GWB may get the Latin American Free Trade agreement through, it will be a fight.