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To: sixmil; Libertina

A flat tax with a high standard deduction has the best chances in my opinion.

Lets take a look at that, An NRST maximum tax burden would be 23% on expenditure, if rate is adjusted to make the NRST revenue neutral with making Bush tax cust permanent, the rate would be on the order of 18-20% of gross consumption expenditure.

The Flat Tax of the Armey/Shelby proposal on the hand works out substantially worse since it leaves leaving all SS/Medicare, Federal Unemployment, excise taxes and tariffs in place and unchanged.

http://www.library.unt.edu/govinfo/subject/vital.html

Joint Economic Committee

Revenue Neutral Tax Rates for Alternative Allowances and Exemptions Under a Flat Tax
Standard Allowances Option 1 Option 2 Option 3 Option 4 Option 5
Single $13,100 $13,100 $ 6,550 $ 6,550 $0
Joint $26,200 $26,200 $13,100 $13,100 $0
Head of Household $17,200 $17,200 $ 8,600 $ 8,600 $0
Dependent Exemption $ 5,300 $ 2,650 $ 5,300 $ 2,650 $0
Revenue Neutral Tax Rate 19.9% 19.4% 16.8% 16.3% 13.1%

Source: Congressional Budget Office, 1995.


Under the Armey "flat" tax, as it is currently proposed,(HR1040 introduced 3/15/2001) a single person would pay:

7.65% ---- 7.65%(SS/Medicare) tax on wages/salary income below $13,600,

26.65% --- 19% + 7.65%(SS/Medicare) tax on wages/salary and other taxable income from $13,600-$75,000

20.45% --- 19% + 1.45% Medicare tax on wages/salaries and other taxable income from $75,001 up.

0% -------- on savings & bond income and stock dividends.

And that single person's business/employer pays,

19% ------ on earnings (Gross Receipts less allowed business deductions, exemptions and credits)

13.65% ---- 7.65% on SS/Medicare employment excises + 6% federally mandated unemployement excises levied on each employee's on wages up to $75,000.

7.45% ----- 1.45% on Medicare employment excises + 6% federally mandated unemployement excises levied on each employee's wages greater than $75,000.

Plus additional selective excises and tariffs dependant upon the nature of business engaged in.

Note: The base "Flat Tax Rate" is subject to meet revenue neutrality requirements under the Budget Enforcement act. The 19% rate stated in the Armey/Shelby Flat Tax proposal does not meet these requirements and would of necessity be adjusted upwards, and/or personal exemptions and business deductions be reduced to meet revenue neutrality criteria for enactment.

Further the Flat Tax is a VAT in the manner in which it transfers tax onto the consumer from business which is taxed at all stages of production and passed on to the consumer hidden in price of retail goods an services.

http://waysandmeans.house.gov/fullcomm/106cong/4-11-00/4-11kotl.htm

"Robert Hall, one of the originators of the proposal(Flat Tax), who describes his Flat Tax as, effectively, a Value Added Tax. A value added tax taxes output less investment (because firms get to deduct their investment.)"

"The Flat Tax differs from a VAT in only two respects. First, it asks workers, rather than firm managers, to mail in the check for the tax payment on that portion of output paid to them as wages. Second, it provides a subsidy to workers with low wages."

 


The Flat Income Tax (FIT) proposal, H.R. 1040, has two elements: a Flat Income Tax on an individual's earned income, and a VAT on businesses. The Flat Income Tax on businesses, is, by admission of Professors Robert E. Hall and Alvin Rabushka, who "wrote the book" on the FIT, a subtraction method Value Added Tax.

Quoting Hall and Rabushka ("The Flat Tax," Hoover Institution Press, 1995, pp55,56):

"To measure the total amount of income generated at a business, the best approach is to take the total receipts of the firm over the year and subtract the payments the firm has made to its workers and suppliers. This approach guarantees a comprehensive tax base. The successful value-added taxes in Europe work this way. The base for the business tax is the following:

Total revenue from sales of goods and services
less
purchases of inputs from other firms
less
wages, salaries, and pensions paid to workers
less
purchases of plant and equipment."

FReepers, the Flat Income Tax is a Value Added Tax in respect of business taxation. Professor Hall testified to that effect in a Ways and Means Committee Hearing in 1995 as well as in his book on the subject "The Flat Tax" in that same year; And it is an income tax in respect of individual taxation.

So, let us quit wasting bandwidth arguing about the Flat Income Tax. It combines a VAT with an income tax. Those of you who do not like VATs should not like the FIT. And those of you who do not like income taxes should not like the FIT, either.

71 posted on 11/07/2004 11:24:06 AM PST by ancient_geezer (Equality, the French disease: Everyone is equal beneath the guillotine.)
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To: ancient_geezer

It doesn't look like you read or understood everything I wrote, so let's cut to the chase. I don't like any direct taxes. I would rather the tax system we had a century ago. But, since the fair tax lobby refuses to collect tariffs, we are locked into collecting direct taxes. A sales tax is a direct tax that can only be avoided by lower consumption or black markets, neither of which I suspect a supply sider would argue for. You are not going to solve anything by adding 20% what is already and 8% tax in many locales.


72 posted on 11/07/2004 11:36:30 AM PST by sixmil (11/2/2004 - And there will be great wailing and gnashing of teeth)
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To: ancient_geezer

Thta's kind of a strange argument if I understand you correctly. 19% income tax is less than I am paying now, so how could I possibly be against that unless I was holding out for 0%?


74 posted on 11/07/2004 11:59:36 AM PST by sixmil (11/2/2004 - And there will be great wailing and gnashing of teeth)
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