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European Debate of Islam Heats Up
AP via Yahoo! ^ | 11/06/2004 | BRIAN MURPHY

Posted on 11/06/2004 12:05:10 PM PST by BJClinton

AMSTERDAM, Netherlands - A five-page letter pinned to the body of a Dutch filmmaker brutally murdered after making a movie critical of Islam called for Muslims to rise up against the "infidel enemies" in the West.

Photo
AP Photo

 

Other messages — later left at the sidewalk shrine where Theo van Gogh's throat was slashed — dripped with equal venom against radical Islam. "Enemies live among us," read one missive in a bed of flowers, votive candles and crosses.

Europe's complex interplay with Islam appears to stand at a tipping-point and Tuesday's slaying of the 47-year-old filmmaker as he was riding his bike down a busy boulevard in Amsterdam could indicate one direction in which it is headed.

"The Muslims say they're scared," said mourner Nicolette Toering. "No, we're scared."

Dutch authorities were investigating whether the chief suspect, a 26-year-old Dutch-Moroccan man detained shortly after the attack, acted alone out of rage or had links to wider extremist networks.

The attack has underscored the hard political and social choices that European leaders face about Muslims and the wider Islamic world.

In December, European Union (news - web sites) leaders will decide whether to overlook widespread public objections and move ahead with membership talks with Turkey, a Muslim nation of about 70 million people and a galloping birthrate that could push it past Germany's population in a generation.

European police agencies have sharply boosted cooperation against suspected Islamic terrorist groups following the March train bombings in Spain that killed 191 people. Washington's European allies in Iraq (news - web sites) are reassessing their levels of military and commercial support following waves of attacks, kidnappings and beheadings blamed on Islamic militants.

EU officials last month signed the text of a proposed EU Constitution that still could face opposition from voters demanding a clear reference to Europe's Christian history.

But those big issues fade on the streets of many European centers. Here — even in places like tolerant Amsterdam — it's often expressed as a gnawing feeling that militant factions in Islamic immigrant communities are gaining ground and chipping away at values such as free speech and secular politics.

"There is a general feeling that a social collision is becoming inevitable," said Jan Rath, co-director of the Institute for Migration and Ethnic Studies at the University of Amsterdam. "People think it's been building for years and now finally coming to the surface."

The landmarks along the way included the 1989 death threat "fatwa," or religious edict, against British writer Salman Rushdie for alleged insults to Islam in "The Satanic Verses," the rise of neo-Fascist movements, the assassination of Dutch anti-immigrant politician Pim Fortuyn in 2002 and France's ongoing showdown with Muslims over a ban on headscarves and other religious apparel in schools.

"My impression is the European voices that say, `Everyone is equal, but we are more equal than Muslims,' are growing," Rath said.

The Netherlands offers a good vantage point to gauge changing attitudes toward Muslim communities across Europe — which have grown more than 100 percent in the past 15 years, according to U.N. reports. Some sources place the Muslim population as high as 13.5 million in Western Europe, or more than 2 percent of the population, in addition to more than 6 million native-born Muslims in the Balkans.

Unlike the French or Spanish, the Dutch long had little direct contact with Islam apart from a colonial presence in distant Indonesia that ended in 1949. Muslim immigrants began arriving following World War II as reconstruction labor — as they did in Germany and other countries.

The workers, mostly Turks, assimilated well into Dutch society. Moroccans and other North Africans began arriving in the 1970s and 1980s, when more lenient laws allowed men to bring in their families.

But the situation in Holland was getting tougher. Jobs were more scarce — especially for the Moroccan immigrant children — and some politicians began trying to connect the rising crime rate with the swelling Muslim community: now about 1 million in a country of 16 million people.

 

Last year, a parliament member, Geert Wilders, pressed for a five-year ban on immigration from Turkey and Morocco. Dutch anti-terrorist agents, meanwhile, have intensified probes into alleged radical recruitment among young Muslims.

Van Gogh — a distant relative of the famous 19th-century Dutch painter Vincent Van Gogh — often tested the boundaries of free expression by denouncing Muslims in the most graphic terms. His last work, "Submission," a joint project with Somali-born lawmaker Ayaan Hirsi Ali, attacked the treatment of women under Islam.

The filmmaker's fans were as passionate as his detractors.

"He was trying to warn us about the dangers of radical Islam," said teacher Geert Plas as he visited the site where Van Gogh was ambushed. "Now maybe we'll listen. To me this is not just a small event. It's part of the World Trade Center and Madrid. We must see this."

The letter pinned to the victim's body also threatened death to Hirsi Ali, who has gone into hiding, and predicted the downfall of the "infidel enemies of Islam" in Europe, America and the Netherlands.

"The jihad (holy war) has come to the Netherlands," parliament speaker Jozias van Aartsen said.

The memorials that piled up on the dark brick sidewalk often crossed the line from sympathy to seething recriminations. "This is the true face of Islam," said a handwritten message. A framed poem called "Imam" ends with a stanza: "If you want to improve the world, start with yourself and your faith."

A banner waved from a fence: "Theo rests his case."

Christian prayer cards, crosses and biblical passages sat amid the flowers — a rare religious outpouring in one of Europe's most secular states.

"This doesn't just say something about the Netherlands," said Baukje Prins, assistant professor of social philosophy at Holland's Groninjen University. "It is an example of how international relations have become polarized."

At a mosque near the murder site, Friday prayers were dominated by talk of the slaying — sprinkled with worry about a possible backlash.

"We are in danger," a Moroccan man told a group of friends sitting in a circle on a carpeted floor.

"No, no," another man said. "We cannot give in to fear. This is our home now."

Moulay Idrissi listened and shook his head.

"I'm afraid. I can't deny it," said Idrissi, who emigrated from Morocco in 1978. "I feel respect for Muslims is falling away in Europe. When people have no respect, anything can happen."

A few hours later, suspected arsonists set fire to a mosque in the central Dutch city of Utrecht, but no injuries were reported.

A 22-year-old student, Abdul Salam, said he tries to tell Christian friends that Muslims have been in Europe since the Moors crossed into Spain in the 8th century.

"So I don't know what to think when people say I don't belong here because I'm Muslim," he said. "I was born here. I don't even speak Arabic. I am European. That's what I feel. That's what I am."

But Salam represents just one side of an internal struggle within Muslim communities in Europe, said Akbar Ahmed, a professor of Islamic studies at American University in Washington.

"Right now the West sees all Islam as a kind of monolith and wipes away all nuances," said Ahmed. "Some want to draw boundaries around Islam in Europe. Other Muslims want to deal with non-Muslims in a broad and tolerant way. It's not new to Islam. It's just new to Europe."


TOPICS: Extended News; Foreign Affairs; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: amsterdam; islam; jihad; jihadineurope; koran; muslim; muslims; napalminthemorning; netherlands; quran; ragheadsraus; religionofpeace; terrorism; terrorist; theovangogh; wakeup; wot
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To: Ben Chad
>>" He was trying to warn us about the dangers of radical Islam, " said teacher Geert Plas as he visited the site where Van Gogh was ambushed. "Now maybe we'll listen. To me this is not just a small event. It's part of the World Trade Center and Madrid. We must see this. "<<

But it is soo much easier to turn away from the facts! Can't we do it just one more time? Please, just this time and I promise, I'll never ask again.

21 posted on 11/06/2004 12:29:28 PM PST by B4Ranch (A lack of alcohol in my coffee is forcing me to see reality!)
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To: Servant of the 9
"Kill them all"

My first thought too.

22 posted on 11/06/2004 12:30:26 PM PST by blam
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To: BJClinton

Too late. Europe has committed suicide. The full effect of their stupidity hasn't been felt yet.


23 posted on 11/06/2004 12:40:41 PM PST by Mr. Keys (Sensitive war? French recipe for disaster)
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To: BJClinton
"...following waves of attacks, kidnappings and beheadings blamed on Islamic militants."

We have film of the beheadings, school murders, suicide bombings etc, all done by Muslims. What doesn't the AP understand... oh, the AP; nevermind.

24 posted on 11/06/2004 12:45:44 PM PST by 7.62 x 51mm (• veni • vidi • vino • visa • "I came, I saw, I drank wine, I shopped")
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To: BJClinton

The Third Reich never died. The Muslim are the benefactors and heir to the Third Reich. Heinrich Himmler got his wish.


25 posted on 11/06/2004 12:46:17 PM PST by Ptarmigan (Proud rabbit hater and killer)
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To: BJClinton
"Right now the West sees all Islam as a kind of monolith and wipes away all nuances," said Ahmed. "Some want to draw boundaries around Islam in Europe. Other Muslims want to deal with non-Muslims in a broad and tolerant way. It's not new to Islam. It's just new to Europe."

Really Muslims want to deal with non-Muslims in a broad and tolerant way?

I am still waiting for the Muslim leaders of the world to unite and condemn violence in the name of Allah. Until then they can treat me with as much tolerance as they want I will still be suspicious.

26 posted on 11/06/2004 12:49:37 PM PST by KernFarmer (Lets really win the war on terror put liberal Senators in jail.)
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To: All

In an ideal world, i would have every single muslim kicked out of the country, but that isnt going to happen any day soon bacause of the over the top; PC govts.
Atleast here in N.Ireland i feel quite safe in the fact that the population is 99% white and there is only one mosque in the entire country. One to many in my opinion, but better than dozens upon dozens.


27 posted on 11/06/2004 12:52:19 PM PST by inflames
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To: BJClinton

Islam is not a religion. There is absolutely nothing religious about it. It preaches violence, hatred, slavery and death. It is an anti-religion. It is a virulent form of mental illness (culturally caused). It is a plague.


28 posted on 11/06/2004 12:53:48 PM PST by samtheman (www.swiftvets.com)
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To: omega4412

I was out of it yesterday and didn't catch those. I hope that's reported all over Europe. Just f'n scary.


29 posted on 11/06/2004 12:55:03 PM PST by BJClinton (Poster under heavy sedation; do not take posts seriously.)
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To: dubyaismypresident

"Coming soon Eurabia. a region like the MiddleEast but with nuclear weapons."

Yes, my thoughts as well. What do you think we will do about it?


30 posted on 11/06/2004 12:55:28 PM PST by avenir
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To: All

Just realised that i couldnt edit my post!.

"There are 4,000-5,000 Muslims in Northern Ireland, most born locally, but there is no purpose-built mosque for fear of attacks. The community worships in converted houses it can barely squeeze into.

Last year, planning permission was denied in the Protestant-dominated area surrounding Portadown amid a local campaign warning people that residents would be "kept awake by wailing".

Planning permission has now been granted but the mosque won't be built, as the community is too afraid. In the past eight months at least eight families have been forced from their homes. "

ref: http://portland.indymedia.org/en/2004/01/278113.shtml

The rest of Europe should follow this example.


31 posted on 11/06/2004 12:58:23 PM PST by inflames
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To: BJClinton
A 22-year-old student, Abdul Salam, said he tries to tell Christian friends that Muslims have been in Europe since the Moors crossed into Spain in the 8th century.

Proof beyond certainty that Islam cannot acculturate. After 1200 years of murdering infidels, nothing has changed.

32 posted on 11/06/2004 12:59:40 PM PST by LoneRangerMassachusetts (Some say what's good for others, the others make the goods; it's the meddlers against the peddlers)
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To: BJClinton
radical Islam

Editors need to watch for redundant phrasing

33 posted on 11/06/2004 1:02:57 PM PST by montag813
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To: BJClinton
This will never stop unless Islam is BANNED by the E.U., all mosques are closed, and tens of thousands are deported. This is hard now. But it will be impossible 20 years from now.
34 posted on 11/06/2004 1:05:48 PM PST by montag813
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To: montag813
This will never stop unless Islam is BANNED by the E.U., all mosques are closed, and tens of thousands are deported. This is hard now. But it will be impossible 20 years from now.

But even that is only a temporary solution. Imagine a terrorist with ability to deliver a nuclear warhead to Europe from the Middle East. That is coming.

35 posted on 11/06/2004 1:10:31 PM PST by weenie (This is a war between forces of good and evil. Humans are only pawns.)
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To: FreeRep
Islam immigrants are having babies three times faster than Europeans.

Q.Why?

A.Because there is no Social Security System in the undeveloped world. To realise that this modern concept destroys rather than helps people. We have to look backwards, in that the entire world for centuries has depended upon reproduction and family as the primary unit of sustenance and care for aging family members.

36 posted on 11/06/2004 1:16:54 PM PST by ijcr (Age and treachery will always overcome youth and ability.)
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To: BJClinton
"Moroccans and other North Africans began arriving in the 1970s and 1980s, when more lenient laws allowed men to bring in their families."

They brought it on to themselves. They made their bed, now they can lie in it.
37 posted on 11/06/2004 1:18:58 PM PST by Max Combined (There is in human nature generally more of the fool than of the wise.)
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To: BJClinton
"some politicians began trying to connect the rising crime rate with the swelling Muslim community"

Probably by pointing out that most of the crime was being committed by Muslims.
38 posted on 11/06/2004 1:20:42 PM PST by Max Combined (There is in human nature generally more of the fool than of the wise.)
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To: BJClinton
"The letter pinned to the victim's body also threatened death to Hirsi Ali, who has gone into hiding, and predicted the downfall of the "infidel enemies of Islam" in Europe, America and the Netherlands."

The letter was "pinned" to the victim's body with a huge knife.
39 posted on 11/06/2004 1:23:58 PM PST by Max Combined (There is in human nature generally more of the fool than of the wise.)
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To: BJClinton

"I feel respect for Muslims is falling away in Europe. When people have no respect, anything can happen."

Typical of Muslims. They murder innocents then complain about being mistreated.


40 posted on 11/06/2004 1:27:46 PM PST by Max Combined (There is in human nature generally more of the fool than of the wise.)
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