No. Half of the U.S. population is below the *median* IQ.
Do not confuse "median" with "average." They are different beasts and mean entirely different things.
One person can bring down an average, but one person can't always bring down the median.
Posted on 11/05/2004 3:10:37 PM PST by Ahriman
Exactly. One wouldn't expect them to fall for the labor theory of value.
Lighten up, Swanky. Telling a poster that he's an obsolete programmer is a little harsh.
Thanks, SwankyC. I'm C/Unix/Oracle/SQL. I don't have a problem but I'm not concerned with myself. It's with the future of the middle class in America. Would you advise any young adult to get into the IT field. I wouldn't. It's just hard to compete with someone making 1/10th what you are making. And doesn't it frighten you think of the US becoming almost totally dependent in foreign IT workers?
My accounting clients are DYING for people. Local San Francisco job boards are posting more technical/engineering jobs now than they have in four years. This doom and gloom talk is ridiculous.
Manufacturing is extremely competitive and for too long, we have een in the mindset of complaining that the jobs are moving abroad, rather than competing efficiently. Yes, other countries have labor advantages - lower hourly wages, longer working hours, and employees who are happy to receive the income they're getting.
But that advantage does not mean that we cannot compete...it means we don't want to compete. For too long our labor unions - through it's collective bargaining and refusal to weed out unproductive employees - have created a culture of laziness, arrogance and entitlement. While many within the unions are hard-working, they have been marginalized by the entitlement crowd. Now, when their jobs are moving over seas, they cry foul.
But have these unions innovated? Have they trained to improve their skills? Have the come up with ideas for new products? Have they engineered new systems? Have they created new markets? The answer is no. The laborers, while for the most part good people, rely on their employers and entrepreneurs to develop new jos for them...then complain that they are getting too rich and the laboreres deserve even more money...
Bottom line, the unions either need to dissappear or they need to take some of that money they spend on politics and put it into innovative technologies, engineering and small businesses. Where to start? There is a huge new frontier called space where a variety of products will be needed for hundreds of years...why don't you start there.
Um, there is a reason there are fewer mfg. jobs. It's called productivity. It's the same reason there are fewer farmers today than in 1890. The sad thing is, PCR knows that.
My accounting clients are DYING for people. Local San Francisco job boards are posting more technical/engineering jobs now than they have in four years. This doom and gloom talk is ridiculous.
I'm, beginning to regret opening this can of worms. I'm not talking about now, I'm talking about 10 to 20 years from now. How can an American worker in these fields compete with someone who can do, essentially, the same job who is making 1/10 they what they are? The long term (100 yrs+) argument is that eventually pay across the world will equalize for the same job, but what happens between now and then? The question is would you advise your child to go into these fields?
The answer is going on offense (reform) and not play defense(protectionism). School vouchers, reforming social security and medicare, tort reform, tax reform, and cutting regulations on business is the only long term solution.
Eliminating all taxes on manufacturers who stay here is not a bad idea either - the argument for that would be national security - we need to be able to protect our industrial base to some degree. Besides any tax on a business is always a hidden tax on the consumer.
Why is protecting America such a disgusting idea to you people???
The company I work for buys NOTHING American...Not that they wouldn't necessarily, it's that America no longer makes anything we need...
I was looking at some of the supplies that came in today...Nuts and bolts from China, Taiwan and Thailand...Tooling from Canada...Steel from Brazil...Americans used to have jobs making these things...What do you suppose they are doing now???
My company's policy is that any new investments go to China...And all company profits go to Belgium...Not a penny stays in the US...
I say let's protect America and Americans...Now...
Excellent post. Thank you.
The numbers (manufacturing jobs lost) are measuring the wrong quantity. What they should measure is manufacturing output, not manufacturing jobs. For example, farm employment dropped precipitously in the last century, but farm output increased!!!
In the case of manufacturing though, it is still decreasing, but not as much as the jobs numbers would indicated. However, what neither party has done well is address the reasons for the loss (although several think tanks have).
The popular refrain is that Chineese or Indian labor cost about 1/20 that of American. That sounds bad, but it isn't as bad as it seems. The reason is that China in particular has emphasized LOW productivity. That's right, low productivity. Following the inestimable lead of American unions, the Chineese attempt to reduce unemployment by keeping productivity low, so that they can employ as many as possible. The idea is that their wages are so low that they can still produce a cheap product with inefficient workers (not the workers fault, though).
The NET difference, if you include only direct wages, is only a factor of 2 on average, particularly when you include other costs, such as transportation and such. 1/2 is a lot better than 1/20.
The bigger problem is that government regulation and federal law impose additional costs to hiring people. The US Chamber of COmmerce (sorry, I don't have the link) estimates that the actual cost of hiring an employe is a factor of 2-3 above his wage level. You pay the employee $10; it costs the company $20 - $30. Most of this is federal employment law which is the basis for employee lawsuits for discrimination and such. Interestingly enough, over 90% of discrimination lawsuits are brought by present employees, rather than applicants that were not hired (as the law was putatively designed to address).
Tort lawyers to the rescue again!!
The cost of tort lawsuits for employment law cost companies directly in lawsuit settlements, but indirectly in additional inefficiencies in operating a business. When you include these effects, the difference between net, effective wage rates becomes 1/6. That is too high.
The solution?
1. Allow the currencies to float to appropriate levels (dollar weaker, China currency stronger).
2. Tort reform and simplification and reduction of employment law.
This approach won't save all manufacturing jobs and output, but remember that we are operating on a distribution; this is not a binary effect. Every bit we become more efficient and economical means more manufacturing that will move here.
Half the US population is of below average intelligence.
How are they supposed to earn a living?
You expect them to get masters degrees in rocket science?
Not a penny stays in the US...
If that were true we would all be living in cardboard boxes.
If all your company's profits are going to Belgium - you have to ask why? Companies and investment dollars are going to go where the profits are. It's no longer rustbelt against the sun belt - its team america versus team china, team japan, etc. Whether we like it or not we have to find ways to compete with them. We could put big tariffs on steel imports like Bush did temporarily to help the steel industry but everyone who used steel got hurt - construction, auto, etc.
Unfortunately for a lot of people in the short term these changes are going to be painful. But once we start down the path to protectionism where would it stop. First the steel industry, then the industries that use steel are going to want protection, etc.
I do think at some point the Republicans or the Democrats are going to go Protectionist in a big way. Since the Demos are out of power I'd put my money on them.
And who builds the robots??? We know the answer to that...
I worked for a company that replaced a welding assembly line with 4 robot welding 'systems'...One operator for each system...Robots came from Germany...As did the million dollar each indexing tables that held the fixtures that were also built overseas...Robots did not build the robots...People did...But they weren't Americans...
Buggy-makers turned into auto-makers...If Henry Ford set up his company in China, who would have bought any cars that he shipped here??? Assembly worker could turn into robot system makers, except now they would have to move to China to do it...
When he stops griping, somebody check his pulse.
No. Half of the U.S. population is below the *median* IQ.
Do not confuse "median" with "average." They are different beasts and mean entirely different things.
One person can bring down an average, but one person can't always bring down the median.
I say let's protect America and Americans...Now...
LOL!!! You work for a Belgian company? IOW, your job was outsourced to America from Belgium?
I just don't think you see the irony of your statements.
RIGHT!
Qualified professionals in my field can make $60,000 to over $100,000 in non-managerial jobs. key point is they need to have the skills and knowledge.
Nope...No irony in my statement...The parent company is in Belgium...We don't make products to sell back to Belgium at a lower cost than they can produce them...And that means no outsourcing...In fact, we don't send product to Belgium at all...
We make products that for the most part stay in the US...We do send some stuff to Ford Motor, in Mexico...But it makes it way back to the US eventually...My company at one time was owned by Americans...It was sold to some Belgiunese folks...Now the profits go to Belgium...
Productivity in the U.S. climed 17% in the last 4 years, too. DO MORE WITH LESS PEOPLE - is that a bad thing?
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