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To: headsonpikes
"It is the state intrusions themselves which have engendered the very real social disorders you enumerate."

You need to define "state intrusions". If you mean social programs, then I agree. If you mean today's current laws, then I disagree.

You don't have to go that far back to see that we were a country with a strong work ethic. Where people had pride and self esteem. People took personal responsibility for their actions. A man's word was his bond. People had character, and women knew how to deal with a "cad".

What happened?

You say it's the government's fault because they started writing laws? C'mon. That came much later.

The federal government started buying votes with their social programs. A pregnant woman didn't need a husband, not when she had Uncle Sam. Welfare grew by leaps and bounds and became a way of life for many people.

These programs robbed people of their self esteem (unlike the CCC during the Great Depression where people refused a government handout and insisted on working for the money) and took away personal responsibility.

People used to be helped by their church and their community. Now they get a check from some faceless bureaucrat in Washington, D.C.

Vast amounts of money were forcibly taken from one class of citizen and given to another, breeding resentment and class warfare.

The laws came later. If character and self esteem will not keep you from doing drugs, then laws need to be written. If men have no shame and harrass women, then laws need to be written. If people are going to receive free health care, then laws controlling their behavior will be written.

You need to ask yourself the real reason for some law. It's not government control. It's more than likely taking the place of something that was voluntary before.

266 posted on 11/10/2004 10:12:02 AM PST by robertpaulsen
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To: robertpaulsen

I agree with you absolutely that welfare programs are anti-human and destructive of society.

You argue that since these socialist depredations are irreversible, we must abandon our liberal, capitalist and open society in favor of a more closely-regulated one.

I argue that we should cancel the war on community and individual responsibility, and let the chips fall where they may.

The WOD is a misbegotten policy in its entirety. Founded in racism and personal ambition, it has had the inevitable result of enriching murderous criminals and corrupt officials around the world.

An entirely new strategy should not be dismissed simply because it would reflect poorly on the existing bureaucracy and their thuggish disregard for American freedoms.


267 posted on 11/10/2004 10:29:18 AM PST by headsonpikes (Spirit of '76 bttt!)
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To: robertpaulsen
The federal government started buying votes with their social programs. A pregnant woman didn't need a husband, not when she had Uncle Sam. Welfare grew by leaps and bounds and became a way of life for many people.

These programs robbed people of their self esteem (unlike the CCC during the Great Depression where people refused a government handout and insisted on working for the money) and took away personal responsibility.

Like FDR didn't buy votes promising people the federal government could make it all better.

270 posted on 11/10/2004 11:02:23 AM PST by tacticalogic ("Oh bother!" said Pooh, as he chambered his last round.)
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