Election 2004 - Some thoughts

JEFFHEAD.COM - ELECTION 2004 ^ | 11/05/2004 | Jeff Head

[cyn]

my thoughts, too. kerry was a dismal candidate, yet got so far ? ? ? things are gearing up for '08 (is the Dem slogan to be "more hate in '08" ?); they will not make the same mistakes again; here's hoping and praying they make others, and that more conservatives engage in the culture war.

[meadsjn]

The next thing after that would be to do something about the education system. We can no longer allow only one set of ideas to fester in the education system, at any level. Either get a proportionate representation, or cut off federal funds. Period.

I've been saying the exact same thing for the past twenty years or so.

Far too many "conservatives" wrongly believe that their neighborhood public school or state college/university is acceptable or tolerable because it is not quite as bad as some of the others. This attitude has allowed the liberal teachers unions to monopolize and degrade the entire realm of education, and by extension to degrade the abilities of the people to rationally discuss and decide the important issues of the day.

Education funding in the U.S. long ago passed the point of diminishing returns, such that every additional dollar per year invested in public education over the past few decades has caused more harm than good. The only way to improve education is to remove all taxpayer funding, return the money to the people, and let schools (including homeschools) compete for the education dollars. The consumer market can better determine quality than a bureacracy can.

[Jack Black]

I see an unalterable divide. I really suggest everyone here go to Democratic Underground (where we are not allowed to post, per their rules) and read what they are saying. Expect a lot of anger, profanity, anti-religous bigotry and hatred. See a lot of mischaracterization of who we are and what we believe.

I see this divide as somewhat permanant. On a personal level people can and do change. In my experience getting people to either become involved in the shooting sports or going to church and over time their politics are going to change. I run a discussion group that is mixed liberals and conservatives and there has been movement to our side, in a few cases dramatic movement.

But this is change at the margins. In general I feel the lines are hardening, not softening. It may even be that there are some pretty big internal population shifts going on. In my own case I left California a decade ago to escape the new, liberal driven anti-gun agenda. More recently I moved from Oregon to southern Washington to remove myself from the absurd tax jurisdiction. This may be happening more and more, "red" people moving to "red" states. (Jeff, I don't think you can reclaim Blue, sorry).

The elected national Republicans are at least subliminally aware of this. Spectors recent comments are reality, he's the only one blunt enough to serve it up. They don't want to be put in the position of fighting tough battles in the culture war. Most of them have no interest in rolling back Socialism in America.

We don't know how much Bush wants to push for this, either. We won, but only by 3%. Pushing back against some leftist programs that are well established could easily result in a 3% shift. Bush has been smart to put together this majority. A great job. But like our majority in the Senate, it is wobbly in the middle.

On the other hand there are many activists out here, and I'd put myself in this category, who are somewhat exhausted of working to deliver power to Republicans and not seeing much of substance come out of it. In fact the Prescription Drug program, another huge entitlement and a big block in the ongoing Socialist conversion of America (and medicine) was delivered by OUR GUYS. That really hurts.

So the Dems have some hard medicine to swallow today, but we may have more to swallow in the next 2 to 4 years as we see Bush struggle to maintain a majority coalition and address the concerns of the base.

The facts are, a lot of these issues are not grey-grey. They are somewhat black and white. And in most cases despite all these Republican gains the Liberal status quo is in force, in law.

Abortion is legal, by dint of judicial activism.

Taxes are high, very high for high income earners, and even small cuts are met with demagogury from the left and left-media. Abominations like "earned income tax credit", a direct transfer payment to selected favored working poor is the law of the land. Bush's tax cuts were only passed with a time out provision.

Spending is out of control. Lots of liberal causes are directly funded. We pay to shoot ourselves in the foot. Again demagogury is the order of the day if anything is even proposed to be cut.

The large entitlements are structurally unsound. The Dem plan to fix them is "tax the rich" .. accelerating the transition to a Euro-socialist model. So far the Republican alternatives, again designed to split the difference and not offend, are subject to lies and distortions.

Affirmative action, absurd eco regulations, endangered species laws, activist judges, obviously illegal campaign finance laws, removal of God from the national heritage, the entire New Deal, public universities as Marxist training facilities, the list goes on and on.

All accomplished fact. What many of us want is a 'velvet revolution' that rolls this back. I have little hope in seeing it happen, even after the work and the great victory we have just won.

We are a nation with two radically different visions. Alignment with them is along a continuim, some all the way Red, some hard Blue and most between the two poles. My sense is many are moving away from the center.

Certainly many of my friends are moving towards the Red Pole. Less acceptance of the status quo. Less willingness to put up with NY Times lies. But all this is not, to date, resulting in real changes for the better in my life. Every time I go to the desert there is more closed land, land that is already so empty it is probably less visited today then it was 100 years ago. Taxes keep going up, spending keeps going up.

How this is resolved I do not know. Paul Wyrich suggested conservatives "have lost" and we withdraw from the political process. (He speaks for Christian conservatives in particular) ... that we build alternative institutions. Thats not realistic. Blue Staters will tax us, regulate us and eventually convict us with impunity.

The Free State Project, which has made many mistakes along the way at least poses a great challenge in their motto:
"Liberty in our Lifetime". It's a goal I can sign onto with gusto. I'm skeptical I shall live to see even a small part of it achieved.

Thanks for posting the topic, and all your inspiration, Jeff!

[Jack Black]

You suggest hard core Red State solutions. Use the real law, the Constitution and our majorities to actually undo the horror of creeping Socialism. You are at "the red pole" as I call it.

I do not feel you will see any of what you suggest happen. The limp Senate will not take this tough route.

[Jack Black]

Like the character in your first book, Jeff. He gets out of the inner city. But that is the exception. It's getting worse, not better there.

[Jack Black]

Please see my response - #83. Sorry the thread had cooled by the time I finished it.

[LS]

jack, I share your frustration: I teach at a university, after all! But while I would agree that my faculty colleagues have no hope, the STUDENTS have changed markedly in the last 15 years. There are fewer "radicals" than ever, and perhaps 40% of the student body is "conservative." I saw Bush/Cheney stickers/cups/mugs everywhere. Early in the campaign, there was a "Catholics for Bush" meeting, and lots of kids showed up.

I'm a historian, so I don't get so panicked at these "divides." Americans are ALWAYS divided. No, you didn't see a lot of partisanship in WW II by the GOP . . . but they did hold lots of hearings on "merchants of death." In 1940, Wilkie was buried electorally, but got quite a bit of the pop. vote. In the 1880s, we had almost THIRTY YEARS' worth of close elections, usually decided by a handful of midwestern states, and tensions were very high, esp. in the old Confederacy.

[Jack Black]

Thanks. Your perspective is interesting.

[estrogen]

I am so happy for this outcome. I thought I was the only one who thought our country was going to pot (except fellow Freepers)

I gladly report that my county went 75%for Bush !!!

[SierraWasp]

I really absorbed what you had to say! Your carefully considered reply, though not very optimistic, was truthful and thoughtful and quite articulate of your point of view. I found it to be quite close to my own in many spots. Thanks for taking the time to compose it while the thread cooled.

[LS]

In light of some of the ideas offered here, let me suggest that as impressive as the "red" map is, the GOP's work is cut out for it over the next four years. It was a major disappointment to me that we could not win MI, WI, MN, or PA. Yes, Bush did better in every state (well, not WI). But there is great political danger in having to rely so much on sweeping every "red" interior state. We cannot, as a party, continue to cede both the west coast, the NE, and the Great Lakes tier of states.

The GOP MUST come up with a viable strategy to pick off more of these states.

That said, I think some trends are with us---pop. shifts are clearly south and west; immigrants don't necessarily go Dem, esp. Hispanics; and the young are more conservative than they have been in a long time.

But whoever runs the GOP, whether it's Rove or someone else, cannot conclude that we can "squeeze" still another 5% out of our base in 2008. We may be maxed out.

[Robert357]

I see an unalterable divide. I really suggest everyone here go to Democratic Underground (where we are not allowed to post, per their rules) and read what they are saying. Expect a lot of anger, profanity, anti-religous bigotry and hatred. See a lot of mischaracterization of who we are and what we believe. .....I see this divide as somewhat permanant.

I have gone over about twice a month to DU to lurk. There is great anger and bitterness, but that is how the Democratic Party machine set up this election and has been setting up elections for about a decade now. The politics of personal destruction was a hall mark of the Clinton years.

The democrats have used anger and rage to mobilize there voter for quite a while. The truth never mattered in this. We all remember Bill Clinton telling us about the Black Churchs that were burned in his home state when he was a boy (there were none!). We remember the add about the black man dragged to death in Texas and how this was somehow the fault of George Bush (NOT!). What kind of brain washing does it take to make a man want to drive over Katherine Harris and tell a judge that it was just Political Expression?

I see the best option as destroying the Democratic party machine insiders careers. By Republicans controlling the House, Senate, and Executive Branches and becoming much more strong in the judicial branch, there will be many less well paying executive and mid-level management federal jobs for Democrats. That will force these people to get "real jobs" and that will mean they won't be able to devote as much time to elections and/or change their attitudes towards taxes and excessive government regulation.

Once people with political smarts understand that being a democrat ends their career at the local or state level, then the democratic party will really change and change quickly.

[editor-surveyor]

"Note the county by county map of CA. We have got to counter the high population centers somehow."

What is clear is that liberals can only survive in the cities. In places where one has to put out an effort to remain alive, there are no red spots.

We have to concentrate on ending all subsidies to urban areas. Cut their supply lines and watch them wither.

[NormsRevenge]

Thanks for the ping and the thread.

fyi

President Bush (news - web sites)'s victory, the approval of every anti-gay marriage amendment on statewide ballots and an emphasis on 'moral values' among voters showed the power of churchgoing Americans in this election. (AP Graphic)

[hosepipe]

[ Please see my response - #83. Sorry the thread had cooled by the time I finished it. ]

Pretty good dianosis.. in #83...
A bit pessimistic.. I like that... but I'm an Opto-pessimist..
both pessimists and optimists are always wrong.. a little of both is the healthy and more accurate demeanor I think.. I hope Bush being a "unite'er and not a divider" is a lie otherwise the boy is as sharp as a bowling ball.. Its time for some serious division in this country.. maybe corporal division won't happen but rhetorical division can happen.. Just using the word socialist is like saying the King is naked these days none will do it.. Most socialists don't even know that they are socialists.. in my experience. Old people are the biggest socialists of all.. The U.S. is getting older.. not a good sign..

Many democrats I talk to.. don't even know what socialism IS.. Most actually think communism is NOT socialism.. And Nazi's were not socialists but fascists.. Educating on this item ALONE would do a world of good in this country. Because thats expressly what the divide, the polarization is.

The question; Are you a socialist ?. Should be asked often.. and persued.. Because most I have talked to have been brain washed by a plethora of other issues as if they were more important even republicans.. Abortion, church and state, gun control, social security, health care ALL pale in significance to that question. Are you a socialist OR NOT ?

A second question needs to asked; Is U.S. a democracy ? and if so what makes it a democracy.?.. Most are confused even republicans. Most often the answer is a democratic republic by the brightest ones.. and the U.S. is NOT a democratic republic.. Confusion... Phooey on the ad "this your brain on drugs".. We need an ad "this your brain on democracy".. Well done and informative who could deny that democracy is a mind altering DRUG... Thats what ails the liberals.. their mind is addicted to democracy.. democracy ALWAYS leads to socialism ALWAYS.. All democrats and many republicans are for the U.S. becoming a democracy. Oblivious to what that means..

Democracy is the road to socialism. Karl Marx

Democracy is indispensable to socialism. The goal of socialism is communism. V.I. Lenin

The meaning of peace is the absence of opposition to socialism.- Karl Marx

We contend that for a nation to try to tax itself into prosperity is like a man standing in a bucket and trying to lift himself up by the handle.~Winston Churchill (1874-1965)

[editor-surveyor]

"In general I feel the lines are hardening, not softening"

In a way, you have simply stated the obvious here. The proclivity toward searching for political solutions to what is clearly a spiritual problem is what is causing most of the frustration.

The issues are not really liberal vs. conservative. The issue is that we live in a country that was founded on Biblical law, and the Gospel of Jesus Christ, and for that reason, and no other, became the greatest nation ever to inhabit the Earth.

The attack on our Christian underpinnings began in earnest about 1830, and over the following ten years, the seeds of our destruction were sown. The most pernicious of these seeds was the creation of government school systems.

We are now witnessing an attack on all that is true, and nurturing of all that is false. 'Religion' in schools is ok except if it is Christian. Religious displays in public places are ok, unless they are Christian. The chant in the election was "anybody but Bush!" but what was really meant was anybody but Christ.

The only thing that stands a chance is if we, as a nation, turn back to Christ; nothing else will avail. He has given us a second chance; perhaps our last chance. We have to follow through on our prayers of recent months.

[calcowgirl]

Thanks for the ping - good read!

[Grampa Dave]

Excellent Jack!

[AuntB]

" Blue Staters will tax us, regulate us and eventually convict us with impunity"

Holy Perdition, Jack Black, sounds like the talk before the Civil War! I wish I could disagree with you.

I don't know anything about the group you mention. I'll check it out.

You should make your post a thread. At least it's a vanity worth reading.
As for the Senate, they are a corrupt bunch of self indulgent elitists.
All of 'em. Maybe not Zell. I thought Jim Inhofe was the best thing since sliced bread until he praised Wesley Clark with a speech at Clark's retirement. They should all be voted out for that pretense of an impeachment trial. The judge wasn't much better.

Sigh.....

[MamaB]

Hey Jeff and everyone,
We just got back home from B'ham and hubby's knee surgery. I learned a lot down there in the waiting room. Some people did not like Kerry, some did not like Edwards but more disliked both. People were upset with Soros, and the others who had big money in the democrat campaign.

While I was waiting, a nurse came out from the OR and said as the patients were waking up, each wanted to know the same thing, did Bush win. It was very interesting hearing these people express their opinions.

Hubby is doing great and we are glad to be home. I sure did miss this place.