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To: Eastbound

The bird stuff is irrelevant,as it involves a TREATY, with super majority requirements for passage. Again, the SUP CLAUS does not give the fed gove rites to pass laws that are beyond the enumeration.

You write... The fedguv has completely altered the jurisdictional playing field through various devices. Treaties, Commerce clause, 'compelling interest' BS, Welfare clause, ad infinitum. And of course, the jurisdictional playing field was tilted with the 14th Amendment when the federal overlay and federal citizenship was created.

You are agreeing with me here. The fed gove has taken over EVERYTHING!!!! You do agree that that is wrong? Again, the question is was the BOR to apply to the states, not "What has the fed gove done over the years."

AT LAST!!! The questions.
1. You are rite, applying the BOR to the states WAS fraudulent. It was never intended and the method by which the BOR was applied was fraudulent.
2. Again, you are rite! The 1st amend says "CONGRESS" because the bor was meant to restrain, well, CONGRESS!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Not my state leg.
3. You are half rite. There was no grandfathering or temporary anything: the cons is short, read it and see. The part you are rite about is that the states would not have ratified the cons if the fed gove was empowered to tell them how to handle their civil rites and such.
4. Chief Justice of the Sup Ct. explaining in detail that the BOR DOES NOT APPLY TO THE STATES.
5. You are again 100 percent rite. If the framers had wanted the BOR to apply to the states, they would have said so. They didn't say so because they didn't want it to apply.

You write... Yes, objects, not subjects. The states are subject to the people. The federal government is subject to the states (or at least they were before the 17th Amendment), and the people are subject to a jury of its peers who judge the law and the facts.

Don't know what to say about this. Madison is referring to "enumerated objects", again, the Fed gove can legislate on enumerated objects only, and you won't find telling the states how to handle their gun laws in that enumeration. You say the fed gove is subject to the states? I thought you've been saying just the opposite, that the sup claus makes the fed gove supreme?


298 posted on 11/10/2004 12:22:32 PM PST by RayStacy
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To: RayStacy
"Don't know what to say about this. Madison is referring to "enumerated objects", again, the Fed gove can legislate on enumerated objects only, and you won't find telling the states how to handle their gun laws in that enumeration. You say the fed gove is subject to the states? I thought you've been saying just the opposite, that the sup claus makes the fed gove supreme?"

Our system is circular, self-governing, self-correcting, with a balance of powers in place. There is a hierarchal structure to our country, with we the people at the top, the states (municipalities) following, then the federal government.

The states protect our rights from federal intrusions, and the federal government protects our rights from state intrusions via Article VI, para 2. and the courts. When all three fail, we protect each other with a jury of our peers.

In a very true sense, a jury of our peers who judge the facts AND the law, is the supreme law of the land when it gets down to the finish line.

The real problem we have in this country is that few realize how many of their rights they have contracted away to state and federal government and they don't find out until they are fined or thrown in jail. But that is a horse of another color and for another thread.

306 posted on 11/10/2004 12:59:06 PM PST by Eastbound ("Neither a Scrooge nor a Patsy be")
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To: RayStacy
" . . . and you won't find telling the states how to handle their gun laws in that enumeration."

Why should it? The fedguv is doing a pretty good job of breaking the Second Amendment without the help of some states. Oooops! I forgot. 'Shall not be infringed' means shall not be infringed while the people are in bed sleeping. But when the people are not sleeping and up moving around, 180,000 federal gun control laws are in effect.

319 posted on 11/10/2004 2:44:44 PM PST by Eastbound ("Neither a Scrooge nor a Patsy be")
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