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First, this is a very complex issue, and opinions vary widely. I am only expressing my opinions. I do not present them as being any better than another person's opinions. This seems like a personal matter to me, and it seems appropriate for each person to form a personal belief and act accordingly.

These frozen embryos are not babies. They're microscopic. Viewed under a microscope, they do not in any way resemble miniature babies. These are masses of undifferentiated cells. No nervous system, no internal organs, no circulatory system.

Just as a stalk of wheat is not a loaf of bread or a bottle of beer, these are not babies. But just as wheat can be milled, mixed with yeast and water, allowed to rise, then baked and a loaf of bread results, an embryonic mass of cells has the potential to be a human. That potential counts for something. Each person must assign their own value to this potential. I believe the value occurs as a result of gestation and prenatal nurturing. Others may not agree, and that's OK.

Now the political part. Given this is by nature a personal matter, I do not believe the government should intervene. People should be allowed to decide what to do with their cells, containing their genetic material. People should decide at what point in the early stage of development they have a prenatal child.

Religion has long served as a moral guide in making these decisions, and that seems appropriate. But given the relatively large number of child abuse cases in the Catholic Church, and the apparent evidence that the Catholic Church knew about the abuse and usually protected priests, I'd be wary of accepting the advice of the Catholic Church on matters of child welfare. I think they've lost the moral high ground, and that's limiting their effectiveness as an advisor on all moral issues. Historically, they have a bad track record on matters of science as well, having confined an aged Galileo to house arrest for speaking the truth when it differed with the official Church position.

On a more pragmatic note, there are hundreds of thousands of frozen embryos. It is not practical to attempt to rescue them. Even if there were enough willing women with a womb for rent, we'd have a lot of extra children contributing to a more crowded world. That seems immoral with so many babies aborted and abandoned every year. In addition, most of these are embryos from couples who have trouble conceiving. Many are from parents beyond the prime age of conception, and the embyros will have genetic defects such as trisomy 21 (Down's Syndrome) and other terrible afflictions.

As I said, it's a complex matter. I'd be surprised if there was a simple solution.


5 posted on 10/27/2004 11:12:14 PM PDT by LibertyIsGood
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To: LibertyIsGood
These frozen embryos are not babies. They're microscopic. Viewed under a microscope, they do not in any way resemble miniature babies. These are masses of undifferentiated cells. No nervous system, no internal organs, no circulatory system.

This is a category error, a fundamental misunderstanding of what constitutes human nature. Size is an accidental characteristic of human beings, not an essential characteristic. A baby is smaller than an adult but no less human. A baby simply represents a human being in a relatively early stage of development. Its life is of no more or less value than the life of an adult human being. The same holds true for children in the earliest stages of prenatal development.

A human's a human, no matter how small.

9 posted on 10/28/2004 4:36:53 AM PDT by Aquinasfan (Isaiah 22:22, Rev 3:7, Mat 16:19)
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To: LibertyIsGood
These frozen embryos are not babies.

Really? Then why is everyone so hot to get their hands on their stem cells? It ain't cuz their frogs or chickens. These embryos are as human as you and me. I'm bigger than my 3 yr old, who is bigger than my 3 mo old, who is bigger than a 3 week old embryo. Size is merely a function of where a person is on the timeline.

18 posted on 11/24/2004 8:41:43 AM PST by workerbee
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To: LibertyIsGood
But given the relatively large number of child abuse cases in the Catholic Church, and the apparent evidence that the Catholic Church knew about the abuse and usually protected priests, I'd be wary of accepting the advice of the Catholic Church on matters of child welfare.

Ad hominem of detraction and fallacy of composition. Logical errors eloquently expressed are still logical errors.

20 posted on 11/24/2004 9:44:00 AM PST by Campion
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To: LibertyIsGood
"These frozen embryos are not babies. They're microscopic. Viewed under a microscope, they do not in any way resemble miniature babies. These are masses of undifferentiated cells." You're wrong, but I don't suppose you're open to learn more ... comfy in your limited knowledge, making incorrect assertions that fit your agenda?

It might come as a surprise to you, but the newly conceived LIFE begins cell differentiation with the second cell division. The newly conceived LIFE differentiates the cells targeted for building his or her (and yes, even at a dozen cells, the sex can be identified) placenta and umbilicus. That is a far cry from the assertion that these stored embryo-aged humans are 'undifferentiated cells'.

Here's a free manuscript to help with the background information on stem cells and cloning.

23 posted on 11/24/2004 10:46:01 AM PST by MHGinTN (If you can read this, you've had life support from someone. Promote life support for others.)
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