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The true threat to hesder (Israeli Military Yeshivot)
Jerusalem Post ^ | Oct. 25, 2004

Posted on 10/24/2004 10:25:45 PM PDT by Alouette

Many leading rabbis in hesder yeshivas – which combine religious studies with military service – have lately endorsed appeals to their student-soldiers to shun participation in the implementation of the projected disengagement from Gaza and, more specifically, to play no part in evicting Jewish residents.

This has instantly produced the expected political reactions, including demands from Labor's Amram Mitzna and Ophir Pines-Paz that special arrangements for hesder conscripts be abrogated. MK Matan Vilna'i (Labor) went a step further and urged in an Israel Radio interview last Thursday that the entire hesder framework be disbanded.

There may be a kernel of justification to the outcry, since of the four years to which the hesder enlisters sign on, only a year-and-a-half is spent in actual military activity. The notion that they could be perceived as enjoying a perk yet balking at duty, and that their spiritual leaders could be on the state's payroll yet essentially sanction subordination, is indeed unpalatable.

However, to do what some of Labor's luminaries advocate would be no less than throwing out the baby with the bath water.

Hesder volunteers have become indispensable for the IDF. The last thing it would wish is to discourage them from serving or to lower their morale. Indeed the prospect of a sizable segment of the hesder aggregate disobeying orders raises particular anxiety in the IDF, far more so than if other groups were involved.

Chief of General Staff Lt.-Gen. Moshe Ya'alon was right to assert that disobedience in a military context is akin to cancer. What is tolerated in a few cases may in time spread uncontrollably. And the well-being of hesder soldiers concerns the IDF even beyond the issue of military discipline and the numbers in question.

Though the IDF does not offer figures, it is no secret that in recent years the share of modern-Orthodox soldiers and officers in crack units has risen dramatically. Indeed, the religious Zionist population contributes to the IDF's elite units and the mid-level officer corps far more than its share in the overall population. The hesder soldiers are a significant portion, a reservoir of well-educated, highly motivated, and readily available youngsters for an army all too frequently burdened with special assignments. All these modern-Orthodox soldiers, whether or not formally affiliated with them, often look up to hesder yeshiva rabbis as spiritual authorities.

The hesder phenomenon made its debut nearly 40 years ago in the Kerem B'Yavneh Yeshiva. The army and then-ruling Labor-led establishment welcomed it as a hook to increase religious recruitment. The haredim stayed away, but the modern Orthodox discovered a mode of reconciling secular nationalism and religiosity.

The Six-Day War, with its subsequent messianic euphoria, led to the founding of more hesder yeshivas and to an upsurge in the numbers of applicants. The Yom Kippur War brought social acceptance. The hesder boys fought with exceptional valor and basked in national adulation. Their numbers began to swell. They were no longer an anecdotal curio but, rather, an important resource.

From an improvised compromise, the hesder route became a proven, established way to marry the military with Orthodoxy.

Most hesder yeshivas are based beyond the Green Line, but until Oslo's advent their rabbis saw no reason to vie with the establishment. Now, the disengagement-engendered polarization is deepening rifts as never before. The looming crisis, in which many of the best soldiers are torn by sincere conscientious dilemmas, is understandably exceedingly disturbing for the IDF's top brass. The army cannot afford to lose or damage so incomparable and valuable an asset.

This is no trifling matter and should not be a subject for recriminations, cheap shots, punitive measures, or quick fixes. A very delicate, though resolute, touch is needed. The hesder soldiers themselves are the last who should be penalized.

Their rabbis, who enjoy both worlds – promoting disobedience while on the public payroll – are another matter. Whether they advocate organized or personal objection, they can only do so as private citizens, without association to the IDF. Those who call on their soldier-students to refuse orders would have us destroy the only army we have, the single fighting force that protects us all. They do not appear to recognize that their irresponsible utterances pose an ever-greater risk to the very framework, the admirable hesder program, that they claim to be championing.


TOPICS: Extended News; Foreign Affairs; Government; Israel; News/Current Events; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: hesder; idf; israel; objection; rabbis; yeshiva
It seems very odd to me that when 2 years ago, a group of leftist soldiers who refused to serve in the "occupied territories" were not only not threatened with court-martial, administrative detention, and their leaders cheered in the Israeli media and even

Now the shoe is on the other foot and the leftist are having a hissy fit. Apparently only they, the privileged elite are allowed to criticize the government's decisions, but everyone else has to "follow orders" OR ELSE.

As the article admits, the "hesder" soldiers are the best in the army. Cracking down on them is very likely to lead to mass mutiny and a possible military coup, and the leftists are very, very afraid.

Can you say "HYPOCRISY"?

1 posted on 10/24/2004 10:25:46 PM PDT by Alouette
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To: 1bigdictator; 1st-P-In-The-Pod; 2sheep; 7.62 x 51mm; A Jovial Cad; A_Conservative_in_Cambridge; ...
I ask all FReepers to pray for the safety of my son in the IDF, who is on duty in the Jordan Valley.

FRmail me to be added or removed from this Judaic/pro-Israel ping list.

WARNING: This is a high volume ping list

2 posted on 10/24/2004 10:26:29 PM PDT by Alouette (Back from vacation, tanned, rested, and ready!)
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To: Alouette

It is still unclear to me how kicking Jews out of their homes is a step toward peace. If it is why not have the Israelis murder some Jews since that would be even more pleasing to the Palestinians who resent Jews. I just fail to see the logic.


3 posted on 10/24/2004 10:38:34 PM PDT by Honestfreedom
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To: Alouette; SJackson; yonif; Simcha7; American in Israel; spectacularbid2003; Binyamin; ...
'Ping!'





If you'd like to be on or off this
Christian Supporters of Israel ping list,
please FR mail me. ~
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MikeFromFR ~
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4 posted on 10/24/2004 10:51:10 PM PDT by Salem (FREE REPUBLIC - Fighting to win within the Arena of the War of Ideas! So get in the fight!)
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To: Alouette

The Hesder yeshiva soldiers demonstrate the very best of a the citizen soldier, who abides by the very highest level of obedience to international codes of engagement, such as the Geneva Accords, as well as abiding by the stringencies of Jewish law, which has great concern that soliders avoid creating civilian casualies and forbids wanton acts. Hesder yeshiva soldies are god fearing in a good way - to act in a restrained and controlled manner to seek peace and keep the peace in as peaceful way possible. Islamic terrorists are god fearing in the wrong way - they think their god wants them to create as much wanton carnage as they can in the name of Allah.


5 posted on 10/24/2004 11:00:08 PM PDT by Seeing More Clearly Now
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To: Honestfreedom

This whole Gaza turnover is a s****y disgrace to the Israeli nation. Of all people, the (usually excellent) fighter/statesman Ariel Sharon is basically forcing Jews out of their rightful homes in Gaza to give the land as gifts to the Hamas terrorist group who will shortly run Gaza. Illegaly forcing your own people out of their homes to give them to the enemy--a Brilliant way to combat terrorism! Why didn't I think of that? //HEAVY sarcasm off//.

Trust me, Palestinian thugs who oppose the very existence of the Jewish people aren't going to pack up their things and head home for a life of "peaceful co-existence" because of the actions of a few nimrods in Israeli office. Sharon and the Knesset are accidentally leading Israel into a trap from which many Jews might not recover.


6 posted on 10/24/2004 11:46:20 PM PDT by RockAgainsttheLeft04 ("America...F**K YEAH !" -Team America: World Police)
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To: Seeing More Clearly Now
Sorry, I left off the last part of the first paragraph. It should read:

even nominated for the Nobel Peace Prize but the leftists get their panties all in a knot when the right-wing adopts their own methods.

No one stood up in the Knesset and demanded that the soldiers refusing to obey orders to serve in the "the territories" should be court martialed or jailed or that they were tearing the country apart.

7 posted on 10/25/2004 6:23:58 AM PDT by Alouette (Back from vacation, tanned, rested, and ready!)
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To: Alouette
Though the IDF does not offer figures, it is no secret that in recent years the share of modern-Orthodox soldiers and officers in crack units has risen dramatically. Indeed, the religious Zionist population contributes to the IDF's elite units and the mid-level officer corps far more than its share in the overall population.

. The hesder soldiers are a significant portion, a reservoir of well-educated, highly motivated, and readily available youngsters for an army all too frequently burdened with special assignments. All these modern-Orthodox soldiers, whether or not formally affiliated with them, often look up to hesder yeshiva rabbis as spiritual authorities.

What an amazing article. As a former military USA vet (my unit was to my knowledge 100 percent Christian for those who professed a faith - the rest were, shall we say, keeping the tradition of the Sailor alive and well).

The astonishing part is the idea of the USA using public tax dollars (not now, but perhaps in the future) to fund religious schools that would actually serve as training grounds for future officers. (e.g., replacing all the teachers at the local public high school with ordained priests and/or pastors on the public payroll; - one can imagine the utter howling that would come from the left ...)

The reason this is so interesting to me is the demographic reality of the Muslims who are flooding to America (there are now more of them in the USA than Jews if I understand the numbers correctly.) Can the USA, whose security is firmly rooted in a Judeo/Christian ethos, enjoy continued security where officers/men worship Mohammad and Allah? It's not a big issue now, but I'm certain it will be within a generation...

Why does the secular left, the big majority in Israeli, allow public funding of military yeshivas? It seems counter intuitive to me, given their outright rejection of orthodoxy.

For that matter, how do the Israelies handle military service from devout Israeli Arabs - do they get an exemption? Is there an Arab Yeshiva equivalent, publicly funded or otherwise, (a madrassa, sp?) that feeds graduates to the IDF? What are the military obligations imposed on an Israeli arab once they reach adulthood? Are they also conscripted outright, and do they serve in the territories as well, or are strictly Jewish units deployed there? How the Israeli left thinks on these matters is an important indicator of what to expect from the nutso, whacko leftists here...

Granted, all these questions I strongly feel are kinda of 'out there', in 2004. But in 2034, I'm certain every single aspect about how Israel handles anything 'Arab' is going to be looked at with a fine tooth comb here, given that the USA's, Israel's, and the Middle East's destinies are becoming more and more tightly entwined.

5 years ago, who would have thought we would have the American flag flying by on tanks on a routine basis by the cities of Nineveh and Babylon? (well, ok, both of those are rather dusty now, but Mosul and Baghdad are pretty close.)

8 posted on 10/25/2004 8:56:22 AM PDT by gobucks (http://oncampus.richmond.edu/academics/classics/students/Ribeiro/laocoon.htm)
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To: gobucks

Israeli Arabs are not required to serve in the IDF but there are many Israeli Bedouin and Druse who volunteer. They perform primarily as border patrol and military police but also belong to many elite combat units.


9 posted on 10/25/2004 10:18:15 AM PDT by Alouette (Back from vacation, tanned, rested, and ready!)
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To: Alouette

"... but also belong to many elite combat units."

Ok, but I've never seen a report of Israeli Arabs fighting, much less killing, Palestinian/Jordanian/Lebanese/Syrian Arabs. Do you know if any reports of this exist? Has retaliation against Israeli Arab IDF personnel happened?


10 posted on 10/25/2004 10:43:41 AM PDT by gobucks (http://oncampus.richmond.edu/academics/classics/students/Ribeiro/laocoon.htm)
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To: gobucks
There was an incident in which an ISM "peace activist" (i.e. terror enabler) was shot in the Gaza Strip by an IDF Bedouin soldier.

There were also a number of incidents in which Druze and Bedouin IDF soldiers have been killed in combat.

11 posted on 10/25/2004 11:25:52 AM PDT by Alouette (Back from vacation, tanned, rested, and ready!)
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