Posted on 10/22/2004 9:39:37 AM PDT by The_Media_never_lie
Unfortunately, they don't talk much, actually hardly ever.
I see better comments coming from Iraq.
To many, (too many) the terrorists are not terrorists, but Muslim freedom fighters who are fighting for Allah and the religion of Islam.
They quietly support them as some on our Christian right supported the murder and bombing of abortion doctors and clinics.
It is really the same kind of thing. All in the name of Allah.
It is a truth that is difficult to understand, and even more difficult to change.IMO
But we can't deny it does not exist and is not playing a roll in the current Jihad.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/570022/posts
Ex parte Milligan
January 1866,
All members of the Court joined in rejecting the government's argument that the Bill of Rights simply did not apply in wartime. The majority opinion contains a somewhat rhetorical passage for which it is justly famous:
"The Constitution of the United States is a law for rulers and people, equally in war and in peace, and covers with the shield of its protection all classes of men, at all times, and under all circumstances. No doctrine, involving more pernicious consequences, was ever invented by the wit of man than that any of its provisions can be suspended during any of the great exigencies of government. Such a doctrine leads directly to anarchy or despotism, but the theory of necessity on which it is based is false; for the government, within the Constitution, has all the powers granted to it, which are necessary to preserve its existence; as has been happily proved by the result of the great effort to throw off its just authority."
Ex parte Quirin
July 29, 1942
Petitioners, and especially petitioner Haupt, stress the pronouncement of this Court in the Milligan case, . . . that the law of war "can never be applied to citizens and states which have upheld the authority of the government, and where the courts are open and their process unobstructed." . . . We construe the Court's statement as to the inapplicability of the law of war to Milligan's case as having particular reference to the facts before it. From them the Court concluded that Milligan, not being a part of or associated with the armed forces of the enemy, was a non-belligerent, not subject to the law of war save as . . . martial law might be constitutionally established.
The Court's opinion is inapplicable to the case presented by the present record. We have no occasion now to define with meticulous care the ultimate boundaries of the jurisdiction of military tribunals to try persons according to the law of war. It is enough that petitioners here, upon the conceded facts, were plainly within those boundaries . . . .
This might be of interest to you.
The problem there is people other than Islamics can and will engage in terrorism, thus prolonging the WoT until there is no human left alive that will violently resist. And that will never happen.
I'm not saying curtailing rights for everyone, just muslims.
Anti-terrorism laws apply equally to everyone. There is literally no chance that will ever change. Whatever rights you take from any American, you take from all.
how do you propose we protect ourselves from this evil death cult?
That's a lot like asking a doctor how you get rid of cancer. He's going to tell you to refrain from behavior that causes cancer to begin with, and that once you have cancer there may be no complete cure and whatever treatment is available is often nearly as bad as the disease itself.
Terrorism occurs because the United States, through its aggressive foreign policy, angers foreigners to the point of violence. When they learn they cannot successfully engage us on the battlefield, they resort to attacking us off the battlefield.
Terrorism is a permanent side effect of entangling relationships with foreign powers. Just as drunkeness is a side effect of drinking alchohol, terrorism is a side effect for putting our troops on foreign soil where they are not wanted, and for propping up foreign regemies that 'play ball'.
So we have a decision to make. We can mind our own business and remain free, or we can expand an empire and face the consequences.
That's quite a list, but like I said, terrorism does not begin or end with Muslims. It's a method that anyone can use. All asymetrical conflicts (one opponent is militarily stronger than the other) hold the potential for terrorism. Even the president's administration has stated quite clearly that the WoT is not limited to Islamic terrorists.
You're entirely too sympathetic to this evil death cult.
Actually I have despised them far longer than has been fashionable. Their culture is just about as opposite from what I want as possible.
That said, they'd have been content to kill each other and very likely fight with the Israelis, like they have been for years, had we not intervened in the region in pursuit of stable oil markets.
I agree the conflict has been onging long before 9-11. It first began when the US propped up the House of Saud and Israel with military and economic aid in pursuit of stabilizing the region with friendly regemes so as to ensure a stable oil market and therefore a stable industrialized economy.
It may be easier to understand with this analogy: Suppose the US had never united into one country. China, in pursuit of needed food for its huge population, begins funneling money and weapons to China-friendly regimes over our objections in farm-rich areas of the midwest. China then sends armed troops there against the people's will, patrols our waters with their navy, then they begin arming Cuba which then begins fighting with Floridians for land.
Any individual state that tried to fight China on the battelfield loses miserably. Would Americans stand idly by while a foreign power asserts its power here? What do you think happens next?
When you answer that question, you will know why we have a WoT.
Our government strongly disagrees. The federal government's definition of terrorism does not even mention the word Islam. The WoT will not end with Islam, or any other single faction, nation or cause. It is a method, methods cannot be killed. That is what we discussing to begin with and what is most important to constitutionally protected freedoms, the end of the WoT.
Your analogy pertains to us arming Israel.
.... and propping up the House of Saud against the wishes of the local popultion, but lets talk about Israel first.
Well, name one war Israel has STARTED. Just ONE.
Can't think of any. And it doesn't matter because of one tiny fact that a lot of people forget: Israel is not part of the United States. I'm not willing to sacrifice the liberty of this country to ensure their security. They are a sovereign nation, and they should stand on their own feet.
Before I get 100 flames for this post and maybe even Zotted by the mods, let me state I hold this position for all foreign countries.
Since we are in a war, I wouldn't characterize the interrogations of those who may do us harm as "criminal investigations". In a time of war I would characterize these interrogations as "intelligence gathering". The Bill of Rights is what we are ultimately defending in this war on terror.
Absolutely.
We give money to every country on this planet and then get kicked in the teeth for it.
Yup, that whole 'entangling alliances' thing Washington warned us about turned out just as bad as he said it would. Can't say we weren't warned.
Israel is the ONLY democracy in the ME
That's nice.
...and we need to support it.
Well have at it. But not with my money, or with the military that I pay to protect this country. I'm not their momma, and defense of their nation is costing us our Bill of Rights. Sorry, that's not for sale for anyone or anything.
Israel (for the most part) watches our back
I'm trying to figure out how spying on us, selling our military technology to China, and making us a huge target for terrorism "watches our back".
On Saudi Arabia, their leaders are two faced liars and we should not be supporting that country.
I agree again. But that's < oil > not going to < oil > happen.
I'd like to become isolationist as well, but that ain't gonna happen either.
If we abandon Israel, then the WoT is lost. That's exactly what the terrorists want and you're ready to give it to them.
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