Bishop Chaput tells Zahn Abortion "cries out to God for vengeance" (CNN Transcript)

CNN ^ | October 19, 2004 | Archbishop Chaput

[Aquinasfan]

ZAHN: So is it a sin for a Catholic voter to vote for John Kerry, who is pro-choice?

CHAPUT: I don't think I can answer that question.

What I would say, it's a sin for Catholics to violate their conscience in their voting, and I think it's important for Catholics to form their conscience according to what their church believes. So I think someone who votes for abortion candidates could be sinning, but I don't think I can answer the question the way you put it.

SNIP

CHAPUT: What the document from Cardinal Ratzinger actually said was, a person could, under some certain circumstances, the circumstances was for a proportionate reason, possibly vote for a pro- choice candidate.

But I think for most of us who understand our faith, it's hard to imagine anything proportionate to the more than 40 million unborn children killed by abortions since Roe v. Wade. So it's a matter of proportionate reason, and what is proportionate to that?

SNIP

CHAPUT: And, for us, abortion is intrinsically evil. Sometimes, in certain circumstances, it could -- we could make the judgment that the death penalty could be allowed. In the Western world, with the possibility of incarcerating people in a permanent way, it's hard to imagine when it would be necessary.

SNIP

[Aquinasfan]

The good bishop acquitted himself well.

The exchange begins about 2/3 of the way down the page.

[Rutles4Ever]

He did well. She tried to lure him into a tacit endorsement of Bush, but he didn't bite.

[wideawake]

Four sins that cry out to God for vengeance according to the Catholic faith:

(1) Willful murder (which obviously includes abortion and other forms of infanticide)

(2) Defrauding laborers of their wages

(3) Mistreating widows and orphans

(4) Sodomy.

Senator Kerry wholeheartedly endorses two of them and isn't sure if he endorses a third.

[Puddleglum]

Hi,

I'm not questioning your four sins but want to follow up reading along these lines. Could you point to a source for more info, please? And if it's something like the Summa Theologica, maybe a section reference :-)

Thanks

[TaxachusettsMan]

I'm defrauded of my wages every time the Commonwealth of Massachusetts - not to mention the Federal Government - takes 1/3 (at least) of my pay in taxes!

[nevergore]

Four sins that cry out to God for vengeance according to the Catholic faith:

(1) Willful murder (which obviously includes abortion and other forms of infanticide)

Kerry supports abortion

(2) Defrauding laborers of their wages

Kerry supports socialism

(3) Mistreating widows and orphans

Kerry divorced his first wife while she was mentally ill instead of supporting her. Through sickness and health?

(4) Sodomy.

Kerry supports the homosexual agenda.....

Senator Kerry wholeheartedly endorses two of them and isn't sure if he endorses a third.

Gee, I think he's on the fast track to hell.......

NeverGore

[VaBthang4]

I do not know about vengenace but definitely judgement.

No society anywhere can kill 40 million people out of selfishness and greed and pretend to get away with it.

The Word says that Mercy is exalted over judgement...it does not say judgement is removed.





The Truth [Reality] hurts when you're on the wrong side of it.

[mdmathis6]

There is a fifth and much more important issue that cries out for vengence: The willful denial of the gift of God's son Jesus Christ and of the blood he shed for our sins.

The other 4 one could show repentence for and receive for-giveness...the last one will send one to hell unless a man repents and says yes to Jesus!

[wideawake]

I'm not questioning your four sins but want to follow up reading along these lines.

Well the original source is, as usual, the Scriptures.

In the case of willful murder, Genesis 4:10 -

And He said to him: What hast thou done? the voice of thy brother's blood crieth to me from the earth.

In the case of sodomy, Genesis 18:20,21 -

And the Lord said: The cry of Sodom and Gomorrha is multiplied, and their sin is become exceedingly grievous. I will go down and see whether they have done according to the cry that is come to me: or whether it be not so, that I may know.

As for oppression of the poor or downtrodden, Exodus 2:23,24 -

Now after a long time the king of Egypt died: and the children of Israel groaning, cried out because of the works: and their cry went up unto God from the works. And he heard their groaning, and remembered the covenant which he made with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.

Finally as to fraud, James 5:4 -

Behold the hire of the labourers, who have reaped down your fields, which by fraud has been kept back by you, crieth: and the cry of them hath entered into the ears of the Lord of Sabaoth.

These are the four passages in Scripture in which God responds to sins that cry from the earth.

Summa II-IIae 108, 1 deals with some of this.

[wideawake]

There is a fifth and much more important issue that cries out for vengence

In a technical sense all sins are offenses against God and not only require vengeance but will be avenged fully hereafter.

The Scriptures however, mention four sins in particular that are worthy of immediate, earthly vengeance and cry out to heaven for it.

[Pyro7480]

Could you point to a source for more info, please? And if it's something like the Summa Theologica, maybe a section reference :-)

The list comes from Holy Scripture. God responded to these sins because of their great malice. Homicide comes Genesis 4:10 (Cain killing Abel); Sodomy comes from Genesis 18:20 (sin of the men of Sodom); oppresion of the poor comes from Exodus 2:23-Exodus 3:7 (oppresion of the Israelites); and defrauding the worker of his wages comes from Deut. 24:14-15.

In the Catechism of Pope St. Pius X, the explanation given why these sins are said to cry to God for vengeance is because "the Holy Ghost says so, and because their iniquity is so great and so manifest that it provokes God to punish them with the severest chastisements."

[Aquinasfan]

#9 bump. Nice job.