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Cops’ pepper shot kills student
Boston Herald ^ | Friday, October 22, 2004 | By Tom Farmer and Dave Wedge

Posted on 10/22/2004 3:46:41 AM PDT by ninonitti

The sequence of events that led to the death of an Emerson College student began when a half-dozen officers on horseback were surrounded by rioting Red Sox fans on Lansdowne Street about 1:30 a.m. yesterday, witnesses said.

By the time armor-clad cops dispersed the crowd of some 3,000 in the shadow of Fenway Park's Green Monster, Victoria Snelgrove, 21, lay fatally injured. She had been struck in the eye by one of a number of pepper balls fired by police to quell unruly fans throwing bottles and bricks.

``The cops (on horseback) pushed in and the people closed in behind them,'' said Emerson student Brett Schweinberg, 18, who was struck by two pepper projectiles fired by police while trying to scale the Green Monster.

``They were surrounded by people and a bottle landed near a horse and it spooked it. It faltered and it got jittery and 30 to 40 seconds later, cops turned around and fired at a group of people about 20 feet to my left. People scattered except for one girl who was bleeding from the nose and mouth.''

A Herald reporter in the midst of the crowd saw revelry turn to mob mentality. Several people tried to scale the Green Monster, at least one of whom plummeted to the ground after being shot by a projectile.

Small fires burned, street signs were torn down and trash barrels were tossed about as police struggled to control the increasingly hostile crowd. Several cars became trapped by walls of people while drivers spun their tires and blared stereos - some with people riding on the roof. Several bottles were thrown, one of which reportedly struck a police officer, breaking his nose.

Theshot that killed Snelgrove followed a standoff between a cop on horseback and a young man wearing a gray knit hat. Standing by a bustling sausage cart, the man refused the officer's orders to move, prompting the officer to reach down and toss him to the ground. After getting up, the man hurled profanities at the cop and made several obscene gestures.

More bottles were thrown as at least one riot cop fired projectiles into the crowd, one of which apparently struck Snelgrove. She immediately fell to the ground while her friends tended to her, rubbing her head as blood streamed from her face. Horrified onlookers shouted ``get an ambulance'' as the girl drifted in and out of consciousness. One of the riot cops checked on the girl briefly. Approximately five minutes after she collapsed, mounted police cleared a path for an ambulance and the girl was taken away.

As cops cleared the crowd, one young man who had been standing near Snelgrove shouted at police, ``Are you happy? Murderers!''

One officer was stunned at the ferocity of the violence. ``I saw the horses surrounded,'' he said. ``It was like a vacuum. They got sucked in. I saw guys holding small trees they had pulled out of the ground like warriors. They were holding steel sign posts they had bent over and broken. We had to fight to get control.''


TOPICS: Culture/Society; News/Current Events; US: Massachusetts
KEYWORDS: badcops; boston; bpd; celebration; donutwatch; emerson; riot; soxfans
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To: LibSnubber

"Come back with proof that those 6 policemen went out with the intent to kill this woman - picking her out of a crowd of 3000 and I might reconsider my opinion."

'Responsibility' and 'intention' are two different concepts. Of course the police did not 'intend' to kill her. Their actions, however, were 'responsible' for her death.

They misused the equipment, not only hitting an innocent bystander, not the intended target, but hitting her in the face, an area NOT to be targeted ever.


141 posted on 10/25/2004 11:16:48 AM PDT by monday
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Comment #142 Removed by Moderator

To: nmh

Uh, READ POST #4!!!!


143 posted on 10/25/2004 11:21:18 AM PDT by ATCNavyRetiree (I can most times spot a liberal...they look weak, cowardly and undisciplined.)
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To: nmh

Ooops, sorry...I thought you were criticizing the police.


144 posted on 10/25/2004 11:23:16 AM PDT by ATCNavyRetiree (I can most times spot a liberal...they look weak, cowardly and undisciplined.)
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To: r9etb
"Oh? It's clear?"

If you shoot someone with a pepper ball at 300-380 FPS, you intend to seriously hurt that person. It will leave welts and bruises that last up to five days, and can break the skin if the impact is near the bone, and can penetrate the brain if shot in the eye.

Given this, how could the police not know that they were going to cause serious physical harm to someone if they were using these weapons? Also, why would they use these weapons if they KNEW that the pepper ball could penetrate the brain and kill if shot in the eye?

Paint ballers ALWAYS wear eye protection as well as a variety of other protection when shooting paint balls. Paint balls are slower than pepper balls yet the police shot people who had no protection at all.

Common sense would tell you that people are going to be seriously injured and only luck would prevent a fatality. Unfortunately for the girl, luck wasn't on her side.
145 posted on 10/25/2004 11:33:11 AM PDT by monday
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To: Vigilantcitizen
"mainly due to the filler having a solid in it(Pepper), rather than being all liquid. If a paintball has too soft a shell, it will bust in the barrel."

I suspect the high velocity is used mainly to improve trajectory and precision when fired. I expect that her family is going to own the company that makes the gun. It's pretty much a slam dunk since the city has already switched manufacturers. Thats as much as an admission that the gun they were using is too dangerous. It's going to cost the city millions too.
146 posted on 10/25/2004 11:45:05 AM PDT by monday
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To: monday; IronJack
I suspect the high velocity is used mainly to improve trajectory and precision when fired.

It's been my experience that raising the velocity on my paintball gun negatively affects accuracy and precision. Other than being disqualified from a tournament for shooting hot(300 FPS+)at the after match chrono, accuracy is the other reason I run my gun at 285 PSI.

Knowing that a paintball is a round projectile fired from a smooth bore barrel, not a rifled barrel, it makes sense. 300 FPS and higher causes a "knuckleball" effect on the paintball.

147 posted on 10/25/2004 11:52:11 AM PDT by Vigilantcitizen (#40)
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To: monday
'Responsibility' and 'intention' are two different concepts. Of course the police did not 'intend' to kill her. Their actions, however, were 'responsible' for her death.

Oh, so NOW you want to distinguish between intent and responsibility. I agree completely with your statements above.

The only fatality in this incident was caused by the police. You support the police, so presumably you support the killing of this young woman. See how you are?

Too bad, though, you weren't capable of distinguishing between my support of police and supporting the killing of civilians. Yeah, I go around supporting deadly mistakes all the time - not!

My stand was and is: "I support law-enforcement on this one especially - because that's what they were trying to do: enforce the law. So sorry a young girl got killed - but I will never believe that the police's intent was to kill anyone."

148 posted on 10/25/2004 12:01:10 PM PDT by LibSnubber (liberal democrats are domestic terrorists)
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To: ninonitti

Kerry was endorsed by the Boston Police union.


149 posted on 10/25/2004 12:05:12 PM PDT by MHT
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To: LibSnubber
"Too bad, though, you weren't capable of distinguishing between my support of police and supporting the killing of civilians. Yeah, I go around supporting deadly mistakes all the time - not!"
"My stand was and is: "I support law-enforcement on this one especially - because that's what they were trying to do: enforce the law. So sorry a young girl got killed - but I will never believe that the police's intent was to kill anyone."

You not only support the police, you support the police in THIS INSTANCE. to quote "I support law-enforcement on this one especially".

The police have admitted making a 'deadly mistake' and killing an innocent girl. Of course they didn't kill her intentionally. They killed her negligently. It is still their fault and you still support them.

You can say that you don't support 'deadly mistakes', but in your own words, you admit that in this case, you do support 'deadly mistakes'.
150 posted on 10/25/2004 12:23:20 PM PDT by monday
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To: ATCNavyRetiree

Not me!

MOST police vote Republican too!


151 posted on 10/25/2004 1:26:31 PM PDT by nmh (Intelligent people recognize Intelligent Design (God).)
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To: monday

HOW OLD ARE YOU? I've never tried to "debate" anyone so immature before in my life. I'm through trying to have a decent, logical debate with you. Frankly, I don't think it was ever your intent to debate. You were probably just bored and thought you'd get off on making stupid, illogical arguments. Well, I have so many better things to do with my time than waste it on you - so I don't give a flip what you say. I never posted to you to begin with - nor will I ever again. Go irritate someone else.


152 posted on 10/25/2004 1:29:58 PM PDT by LibSnubber (liberal democrats are domestic terrorists)
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To: LibSnubber
" you'd get off on making stupid, illogical arguments."

I see. You get caught in a logical inconsistency and then accuse me of doing exactly what you do? .... and then insult me, ...and you question my maturity?
153 posted on 10/25/2004 1:50:13 PM PDT by monday
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To: monday
It's going to cost the city millions too.

It would nice if there were a "city" and then there were "taxpayers". Unfortunately, I still own property in Boston so I'll be paying for my share of the Darwin Award on this one. (Most Boston cops live in the 'burbs)

154 posted on 10/26/2004 1:39:16 PM PDT by ninonitti
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